Technical Model A Serial Number (Car Manufacture Date vs Model Year)

Is a frame with a serial number that translates to a December 1929 manufacture date considered a 1929 or a 1930 model?

 

Show a picture of the front crossmember.

 

Ford sometimes continued making a certain year model into the following year. Also, if it was going to be available in January of the following year its likely to have been manufactured before Jan 1. You probably need to look at the actual number you have and see where it falls sequentially in the total set of numbers for that model.

According to a book I have, production started Oct 21,1927 and ended April 30,1932. During that time the car "evolved" and had 5,000 minor changes and 150 major changes.

28-29 had a low hood and a nickel radiator shell and a reverse curved cowl

30-31 high hood,stainless rad shell,smooth and tapered cowl

There are other differences but those are the most prominent. (per the book)

 

You can look up your number=various sites, and it will tell you when exactly is was made.......^^^^^^^

 

A couple weeks ago I bought this modified "shortened" 1930 Model A on a homemade frame. I went back to the seller's house yesterday to retrieve the original chassis because I need the serial number to apply for a title. He told me the chassis was among the Model A cars and parts in back of the property. I checked the numbers on all the chassis on the property and the closest to a 1930 Mfg date was the chassis manufactured in December 1929. The others were AA frames.

Since my initial post, I've searched some 1929 news articles to see when Henry introduced the 1930 models. I couldn't find that specific introduction date, but I did find classified ads selling 1930 Model A's as early as August 1929. Is it safe to declare the chassis manufactured in December as the one to my car? Sequentially, this chassis was the 37,465th chassis of the 64,554 built in December.

The car I purchased is at this link: Technical - Help Identifying Front Axle | The H.A.M.B. (jalopyjournal.com)

 

It is my understanding that the chassis serial number was designated by the engine number. The engine serial numbers were indeed catalogued, not by the build date, but by their testing and final approval date. The engines were not necessarily used in sequential order and the actual vehicle assembly occurred days, weeks or months later. I'd agree your "A" is a 1930 model year.

Nice job documenting the first availability of the 1930 model year.

 

If the numbers are for a December build date, then the car would be titled as a 1929. The Model A used 4 frames during its production, with small changes made almost every month. In October of 1929, frame A-5005-C was put into production, in preparation for the 1930 model cars. Even though the new frame was put into production the car's were still titled as 1929 car's. If you are trying to register your vehicle, I would use the December 1929 serial number because most DMV's will have those numbers in their data base.

 

It depends how the particular State DMV works, if the car was sold in February 1930 it could be titled 1930. I had a 1930 serial number car titled as a 1931, as long as the serial number on the car matches the title.

 

frozenh2o, so this means that a 1930 model could've been outfitted with an engine that was assembled in, December 1929 (for example) and on the vehicle assembly line, let's say in January 1930, the engine SN was stamped on the frame as a duplicate form of identification. Did I interpret your reply correctly? This would explain why a vehicle that can be physically identifiable as a 1930 model would have a SN associated with a 1929 period.

woodiewagon46, for clarification, the cars advertised and sold as 1930 models between Aug-Dec 1929 would've been titled as 1929?

I'm considering using the December 1929 serial number. To avoid rejection from the State Trooper Inspector and DMV, should I:

1. Register it as a 1930 based on its physical appearance and explain the 1929 era SN as told by frozenh2o? This explanation seems somewhat similar to vehicles of today where some of the next year's models are manufactured and sold in the latter part of the current year.

2. Register it as a 1929, despite the physical appearance, and explain it as told by woodiewagon46?

 

I you look at the left lower portion of the upper firewall, you may see a date stamped in it. I have been told this is the actual production date. I say may because my original upper firewall does have a date stamped in it. That firewall was hacked up on the right side so I bought a tank assemblies at a swap meet just for the upper firewall. That upper firewall has no date stamped.

 

Thank you, 31Apickup. Learning your situation with the 1930 SN on a 1931 Model helps.

 

Because the official production records reflect engine dates and not vehicle assembly dates, and those records are your only documentation, you probably have to register it as a 1929 even though that is likely incorrect.

 

Does the frame have the 1930 crossmember? Does it look like a 1930 frame? I always err on the side of registering it as what it looks like if possible. If you can register it as a 1930, do it.

 

alchemy and 05snopro440, I'll see if I can get the PO's daughter to send me pics of the crossmember. If not, then I'll make the visit this weekend and take a couple pics.

 

The front crossmember will tell us what sheet metal was on it originally. Switching the grille would require switching the crossmember to make it fit properly.

 

The 7/8" drain hole in the crossmember wasn't added until January of 1930, his frame was produced in December of 1929 and more than likely does not have the drain hole. It should however have the two depressions where the radiator bolt holes are that were added in October of 1929. Do you have any sheetmetal for this car?

 

woodiewagon46, the front fenders, aprons, and running boards are still attached to the chassis. I've also asked for pictures of fenders. I completely forgot about comparing the fenders when I was there this past weekend.

 

borntoloze, I went to retrieve it, but I didn't bring it home because I wasn't sure it was the original chassis. There's absolutely no intent of doing anything shady here. I have an arrangement with the PO to bring the chassis home IF I can use it. Numbers alone would be useless to me. I would need the frame for the inspector to verify the numbers. My intent is to do things on the up and up.
Where have you seen mention of restamping numbers?

 

Not Sure on your State ,
If your not using
""The / Or A Original ""
Frame it not going to Matter ,
If using a Original frame trying to to get a lost title /Re-issued
& if Vin in the system thats going be the year make that title will be issued,

(Vin ) "" Is Only ""
for Frame , Motor , transmission!!!
Nothing to do with Body ( Pre War)
Now if you are going to use a After market Frame
The state is going to Issue new Assigned Vin , Vin plate will be installed to body , ( not for sure if one attached to frame) Wants a new Assigned Vin is issued I do not know if the body and frame can be separated!!??? """Like Original Vin Pre War
Vin /Title /Registration Stays with Frame ,
More likely if a Vin has not been Registered after
1970 it will not be in system ,

Laws have changed afew times

 

If you can post a pictures of the fenders, that will end the mystery once and for all, '28/29 sheet metal totally different than '30/'31. If you have '29 sheetmetal and a 1929 December frame, then you have a December built 1929 Model A. Ford, simple as that.

 

Ford COULD NOT produce a 1930 with a 1929 Front crossmember, couldn't produce a 1929 with a 1930 front crossmember. The radiator mounts are different.

 

When I went to register my Dodge PU, the serial number said it could be a ‘31 or ‘32. I let the Ca DMV decide what year it was for the title.
Unfortunately, for some odd reason, it needed a smog check. Lol.

 

So the 1928-29 style pickup was built until mid 1930, it still used 29 style fenders, did it use a 29 front crossmember in 1930. There were alot of running changes and I’m sure it varied from assembly plant to plant.

 

If you buy an original frame that has a serial number and get a license for that frame, then you should be fine. Might be a little different if you were restoring something to original condition. My understanding is that the cars actual serial number had nothing to do with the body.....no S/N on the body. It was stamped on the frame just under the cowl. When the frame arrived at the engine factory, an identical number was stamped on the engine. The frame numbers were subject to water collecting and rusting the numbers so they were illegible. Generally the number on the engine was all that got scrutinized because it was a lot of trouble to raise the body off a frame. If you take an original frame and a body to the license bureau ......that should be sufficient to get a title.

I have a title for a model A and the numbers on the frame were rusted. I cut the serial number off the engine and kept it for use later on. You probably don't have access to the matching engine....and a lot of those engines got replaced in the last century. Frames and bodies changed all the time. I'd just take the frame and body and bill of sale if ya got one and not say anything about using a homemade frame. Then after you get your title, stamp the correct number on the new frame.

Sometimes the world ain't perfect and you just have to do a workaround.........

 

Pictures are in, but they don't show all of the radiator mounting pad areas. She didn't send pics of the fenders. Hopefully, there's enough to tell whether it's a 1930 or 1929 (fingers crossed it's 1930).

 

Your crossmember does not have the 7/8" radiator drain hole, so it was built before November of 1929. It also shows the early style starting crank bearing A-5461 and the A- 5455 spring clips, ("U bolts"), phased out in February of 1930 and early style radiator splash apron.

 

Thank You, woodiewagon46.

 

Don't recall seeing the rolled bead on the back of the crossmember, what is the history on that?

 

That’s an AR front crossmember that had the rear tabs cut off. That means early 28.

 

Thanks, alchemy! I'll recheck the serial number, A2715606, this weekend. The last digit was the most faded. Perhaps it's not a 6. Although I didn't get the desired outcome on the chassis, there's a silver lining to this. I've been collecting parts for a 28/29 roadster build so I can add the chassis to that collection, send the '30 down the road, and get a couple more bucks to add to the roadster bank.

Thanks to all who contributed to the search. I learned a good amount.