Technical welding, whats needed, and how is it done best with a budget?

This is way past the point the OP is at. He has to get to the point he can lay a bead, then that bead needs to be able to hold two pieces of metal together. The OP would do well to watch several videos on welding sheet metal. Hint, if the guy showing you how to weld is not wearing gloves, and is not wearing safety glasses when he grinds, look for a different video.

This should be a one piece of metal patch. Start out measuring the area to find out how large that patch is going to need to be. With the measurements in hand, cut a piece of cardboard (I recommend the cardboard your favorite 12 or 24 pack beverage comes in) that is a couple inches larger then the finished patch will be.
Card board that thickness can be bent much like metal bends and will pretty much hold the bend. If you screw it up, you can tape another pierce onto it, or toss it and start over. Start where the bends are close to 90 degrees. Measure the cardboard so it is a 1/2" longer then the distance needed to cover the hole to the first bend, and make that bend. Clamp (2) 2"x4"s on the cardboard and bend the cardboard around the edge of the wood. Then measure to the next bend, mark it on the cardboard and make that bend. Once the parch piece is formed, trim the edges to match up with the edges of what the patch would weld to. When the cardboard is fit to the hole, lay the cardboard out flat against the patch metal, and use a marker to draw around the outside of the cardboard. Cut the metal a little larger then needed, and form your bends, do one bend at a time. Lay the patch over the hole, trim as needed, clamp it in place, and weld the patch in. Way easier then cutting up a bunch of parch pieces and welding them together.

 

i think ive explained, he cant see well enough to weld anymore. when i was a kid his ability to weld was there, but he said even then he couldnt do it as well as he used to. now his vision is even worse, hes legally blind in one eye and almost there in the other, and he hasnt welded in a while.

 

That helmet is certainly old school ..... many did well with them.
Modern helmets have several improvements. Certainly is easier to learn with a good modern helmet.
I bought one from a welder for $20 .... it came free with his new welder he bought .... I since then upgraded to a better helmet.

I have a comfortable pair of safety glasses I wear around the shop, they also have UV protection.
So I wear them under my welding hood.

Modern hoods require a battery to operate, you can adjust how quickly they darken or lighten, the shade of how much they darken, they have a switch on the side you can turn off for when you are grinding.

I went to a community college years ago to learn stick welding .... I could never see with the helmet on.
It really affected how well I could weld .... I quit the course 1/2 way in.

A decent helmet improved my welding 90% .... Again learning to set it up is a skill you learn when welding.

 

To me everyone should learn to gas weld first. It forces you to concentrate and master the manipulation of a molten pool of metal. It teaches you proper hand eye coordination. After mastering oxy/acetylene using a mig is like cheating.
Being a shakey old senior citizen I often will steady the cup with my left hand, with a heavy leather glove on of course. I also position a bright light over my shoulder and use a magnifier on my lense in addition to my readers. Sure made a difference in the quality of my welds.

 

Im no expert welder by any stretch but one thing I was taught is to listen for a sound (like frying bacon). From what Im hearing you need a bit more heat (voltage) & hold your tack a bit longer, count like one one thousand, then place another spaced tack weld like in @Tman pic. Nice clean metal. Then work your way around spacing out the tacks until the piece is secured. Now continue to slowly stack tacks while moving around to not focus the heat in one single area. Tack then cool & repeat until its all stitched together. Now bust out the same roloc and flap discs you prepped your metal with and grind those tacks smooth until theyre to your liking.
An area like this & floor pans are great places to learn these techniques. Now for exterior body welding some slightly different techniques may be used, but we're not there yet. Of course all this I learned with MIG welder. Dont let anyone say it cant be done without a TIG.
PS I like to position the torch touching the metal then back off just ever so slight so the cup is just a little back not quite touching. Otherwise you'll clog the tip and make a mess. & Keep your welding pliers close, fresh wire, clean metal & a clean tip, a little practice & you'll be money .

 

Sorry to hear that about your dad. You haven't mentioned it in this thread so I didn't know. If he was a half-decent basic welder, he could give you a lot of guidance just by talking with him. Also, maybe with his help, try to find someone in your area to spend a bit of time showing you the basics. Surely there is someone in "Rural Ohio, Northeast of Colombus" that can weld. You really look like you are out of your depth with this, but once you get that bit of time with someone showing you how, you will be on your way. The guys trying to help here have the best of intentions, but this is not something you will learn easily or correctly from youtube videos and forum posts. It will take a long time to refine your welding skills. Don't give up. Waltz and puddle, man, waltz and puddle.....

(And keep good safety habits. Try to avoid the lung problems from fumes, the eye problems from flash, and the skin cancers from the "welder's sunburn"......... Oh, and electrocution. That's not good either.)

 

Thats exactly my point .... making that patch with all the compound curves in one piece will be very difficult. You will need every tool in the shop ... sheet metal brake, shrinker stretcher , power hammer, everything you got & the knowledge to use it.

While making it one piece at a time you need a vice, a hammer, just basic hand tools.

Will it be perfect? .... Heck NO! But it will be very good & build confidence & experience for the next patch.

I like watching this guy, he is very good but sticks to teaching with basic home shop tools.
I repaired my transmission cover with 13 different pieces of small metal .... looks great & very solid.

 

Proper safety gear is essential

 

I'm calling BS on this. I've been welding in patch panels for 30 years. I have a home made metal brake (used 2 pieces of 2" x 4" before I built it). You can buy cheap metal brakes at HF. I have a vice, a hammer, and basic hand tools. I learned to use them by practice, just like I learned how to weld.

I have never had a shrinker/ stretcher, and have never had a power hammer.

 

@gene-koning thats fine, lets not get the thread locked for the op, there is a lot of good info here for them.

You can pm me and we can discuss it there .... I still say there is a lot of compound curves there & you are wrong in making it in one piece. .... The one section is almost a S curve .... will you make that with a hammer & anvil? All in one piece?
I too have a homemade brake & other homemade tools for working sheet metal ... it is a learning curve & I choose to point someone in the easiest direction to get started.

I apologize to the moderators and I will not reply again to this thread .... keep it open for the kid.

 

luckily Im talking to @alanp561 about his son potentially helping me out.

i have no intentions of making this perfect. its probably going to be a 3 piece weld, one go bolster the top, one to bolster the thinner side of the piece, hammer it roughly into shape, then fill in the rest. its going to be ugly as hell, but the goal is to make it solid, but hide it with the battery tray.

 

https://www.google.com/search?sca_e...X0KHaGlDAQQ0pQJegQICxAB&biw=981&bih=645&dpr=2

 

Excellent. You will benefit greatly from a little bit of one-on-one with a welder.

 

With a dark lens, not only do you not want a bunch of light inside the helmet, but a BRIGHT light close to the part helps a lot.
X2 on watching someone who can do it helps.
Miller will have a lot of tutorials on getting started. Don't worry, your description of how it feels is accurate!
https://www.youtube.com/OWThL97tq3k
https://www.youtube.com/DEDHR-Nst6E
BTW, you were able to post good videos to youtube and embed them. That is something that stumps a lot of people here. So once you get a better hang of this, maybe you could write or video a tutorial on that and pay it back!

 

A lot of us have benefited with a little hands on under the watchful eye of a experienced buddy

 

Self darkening helmets helped me a lot

 

I haven’t watched the videos, but just assumed the welding was being done of sheet metal?
If so, don’t run “beads”. Just tack the two pieces together. Move 180, tack again.
Learn that before running a short bead on sheet metal.

 

I guess I been doing it wrong for years….rarely wear gloves, unless it’s a huge project! I have an old helmet, that I clean with my hanky, I guess I just shot from the hip! I usually use my A/C spudder box! But I can still get a weld like this! My first weld in ten years with ten year old rod. It’s just melting metal! Lol





Bones

 

An AC stick welder is totally different than MIG on sheet metal. Super forgiving to cleanliness. Your welds look good! I learned on Stick, got thrown into it on a construction job I had in college. Welded ALL the stalls in the SDSU experimental Dairy Barn. A couple weeks of welding 200 stalls! Still in use 30 years later. I reccomend stick and or gas to learn on but he has Mig for now so lets walk him thru this!

 

i have a stick welder too, i was told to use mig for sheetmetal. its an old 1950s or 1960s lincoln tombstone.

 

Take your angle iron and cut some 45s, practice welding them at right angles with the stick. It will help you learn how to "see" the puddle. When done, whack em on a hard surface, put them in a vice and see if the welds break. GREAT exercise!

 

Another note on prep. I showed your the abrasive disks. But most shops also use air grinders with sanding disks, flapper disks etc. Also electric angle grinders but the air is more controlable. NEVER use a hard stone grinding wheel , at least when learning.

 

I agree, that Stick, mig, Tig, gas are different…..but in the end…you are just melting metal together on all of them! I agree he should grab the stick and learn the basics of melting metal. Then the mig will come naturally!
I was just wragging on the new helmets and gloves thing…..I guess I’m just too country! Lol






Bones

 

Slow down ! Turn up the wire speed. Try & form a puddle .

 

@The_Cat_Of_Ages Get some thick metal. 1/4 or 3/8" thick and turn your power and wire speed up and practice on that and go SLOW and form a puddle then start moving SLOWLY away from the puddle dragging it SLOWLY along in a straight line with the piece of metal lying flat. Once you master that and get a fairly good bead then try on the sheet metal. You will need to turn your amps and wire speed back down and give it a short trigger pull creating a spot weld. Move about 2" away and give it another spot and keep doing that. when the first spot has cooled go back and do another spot and then jump to the one 2" away and do the same. a series of spot welds will eventually fill in and create one long weld without burning through.

 

This is for @Pist-n-Broke
He came over to my garage one day and was watching me weld and the very polite conversation that followed went something like this:

PNB: "Bill, do you wear glasses to read?"
BB: "I am supposed to"
PNB: "Bill, go get them"

Seriously the best welding tip I ever had. I now have "readers" in my helmet (they sell them at all welding shops and amazon). You can't weld well what you can't see well.

 

"the very polite conversation" Wow, I must have really been off my game that day. Don't sound like me at all.

 

You just didn't want to make "spectacle" of either of us?

Spectacle? Eye glasses? Synonym? No?

 

Make a pattern
Make a part
Make the part fit
Weld
Grind
Hammer and dolly.
Make the next part

 

Start on thick metal that you can't blow through so quick. Running beads on thick metal (without even trying to fuse parts together) is how you start to learn to strike the arc and control the puddle. Only by doing will you develop the intuition for how your movements impact what the weld puddle is doing.

You can't learn to weld by reading any more than you can learn to ride a bike by reading. Having someone with experience to guide your hand a little is a big plus but not necessary.

Here are some tips based on your videos: slow down. The weld puddle has to have time to heat the metal in front of it in order to maintain a good arc and consistent weld. When you strike the arc, hold steady for half a second before you start moving the gun.

Get your gun angle lower, I usually end up resting my hand on the work if I can. That straight-down angle sucks for making a good bead. Work on a table or get your body lower so you can be more comfortable holding the gun at an appropriate angle. Here is an example.



Don't move the gun in a straight line. The tip should be moving in a pattern. Every welder develops a personal preference but here are some to try. A circular pattern is easiest and once you get it down will make neat, professional looking welds.



Also, I usually don't wear gloves unless I'm going to be doing long, deep welds on very thick shit where the radiant heat will burn me. It's a good idea but I just completely lack any tactile sense while wearing gloves and that's not good when precision matters.