Technical welding, whats needed, and how is it done best with a budget?

What price eyesight later in life...???
There are many half-blind old welders wandering around bumping into things.....

You have much to learn about welding, Grasshopper...........

 

"Old farts"? WTF? Just exactly what "Professionals" are using the auto darkening hoods? Are you referring to professional body shop people who weld, shop rats in a fab shop or what? I was a Union Boilermaker welder working on structural as well as round iron with the occasional boiler tubing thrown in the mix and the hood most issued on those jobs was the godawful heavy Fibremetal helmet with the flip up lens holder. That unit weighed about 7 pounds with the hard hat, and they are still in use today. Those things would survive being dropped from great heights as well as things being dropped on them from great heights, usually when you were working. I've avoided a lot of injury wearing one of them. They were not for the faint of heart and if you wanted to increase your shirt collar size, wearing one of them would make your neck muscles absolutely ripped. The only modification I ever made to one was to add a hole in the front so I could smoke a cigarette and not have to quit burning rod to do it.

As for your reference to double clutching, the car I'm building which actually fits the requirements of this forum has a transmission which relates to an earlier time period that I like much better than the one I currently live in. If I were to build a 2023 period correct hot rod, by all means it would have a T-5. Since they weren't around when I was 17, my car is going to represent what was available 62 years ago. Double clutching is going to be mandatory in 1st and 2nd.

 

Seems there's always someone eager to tell you how to spend your money ...

 

I agree with you 100% .... Where you are going to save money in building your car is doing the fabrication & welding yourself.
I live on a fixed income retired .... I have no options to go earn extra money .... I could afford a $50 helmet.

Using the helmet you have is a frigging joke .... people are pumping you up to say thats what they learned on .... You want to build a car? ... Get good at welding & fabrication .... spend your money there.

 

Hey @alanp561 , if you want a good laugh, hand a new-generation welder an old flip helmet and watch him try to co-ordinate using a head flick to drop the whole shebang while trying to hold a piece in place and strike his arc......

 

I get it, do you know how stupid that post sounds? .... 7 pounds hoods today?
Flame on buddy but thats not what the boilermakers wearing today.

We all get old .... what was a common thing 20 years ago is not common now.
Then 20 years ago seems like it was just last week .... then reality strikes.

 

I just saw an auto darkening welding helmet in my latest Princess Auto flyer for $24.44. That's in Canadian dollars which are worth about 75 cents in your money. I think they are affordable. Not great, but will get you started.

 

I threw one of those flip lens helmets away 30 years ago. Didn't work worth a darned welding floor boards under the steering wheel and dash, every time you flipped the lens down, the helmet moved on my head. The full flip helmet (with the big lens) worked much better for me. The auto darkening helmets were even better, when I used them often, but now that I'm only welding once a month or so, I'm back to the old flip helmet.

Not every professional welder is a boilermaker, in fact, probably very few are anymore. There are a lot of welding occupations where skilled welders are still needed. Lots of industrial welding is still being done by humans, and much of that relies on highly skilled people. Most industrial welding shops require certifications, and at many of those, having an auto darkening helmet is a must. Then there are fabrication shops and the old fashioned welding repair shops that still have skilled people welding stuff together. The area the welder (the person) is working in has different requirements for the equipment he (or she) needs to do the job.

In the automotive world, the welding equipment you invest in is like any other part of the hobby. If you do the same type of work often, you tend to buy better stuff to work with, its kind of a natural flow of things. If you only do something once or twice in your life time, you can usually get by without all the cool expensive stuff, but when you find yourself doing the same thing over and over, those cool expensive things that make the job easier, become more important.

The OP is just getting started with welding. He has some equipment to work with, all he needs now is to learn the skills. If he enjoys welding and finds himself doing a lot more of it, it won't take long for him to figure out some things are worth spending the money on. If he doesn't like welding, what he has, as long as it functions, is probably OK.

 

@gene-koning , I agree. I have my auto-darkening helmet and wouldn't be without it.
Just sayin', the old helmet head flick is a disappearing art.......

 

I agree with you 100% ... They have a really good welder. My camera sucks & who cares!
This is what I'm dealing with today burning in the floor to my truck & also a patch panel in the rear of the cab.

I realize the photo is terrible .... my camera is terrible .... that floor is 98% welded in .... Just funny the photo shows a shadow line above it. That floor is welded in.

I'm not making my opinion up, I'm in the process of welding a old truck back together. And I'm a ne w welder just learning.

Wearing a old helmet like @The_Cat_Of_Ages would be the biggest joke of the process.

 

I apologize for the multi photos ... point is we all start somewhere .....

Starting with that helmet reminds me of painting your car with a vacuum cleaner .... yeah it was done, would you do it today?

 

After Tig welding with a HF helmet for several years, someone pointed out the on the label inside , Not for Tig welding !!!!!!!!!!!

 

I don't know if you can get these anymore but........

 

The above is not a new concept, I bought this one in '69, a Huntsman Auto View. Open your mouth and raise the dark lens.

 

I have pretty much given up on welding some years ago. I had gotten flashed too many times in the stock car years and my night vision even 45 years ago was getting bad, forget about driving at night in the rain these days.

I will still do something small, make sure my helmet batteries are fresh. Otherwise I'll tack it and turn it over to a friend or a pro that makes house calls. Money well spent.

 

I definitely know the pain of spending money when you already have something that kinda works, and it was a big sting when I bought my Speedglas helmet when I was your age, just out of high school and starting welding classes. They were way more expensive back then, about $400, and that was in year 2000 dollars.

But if you can swing it, it'll really be worth it, I still have that helmet, it's the only one I've ever used (for the most part) and I'm 42. It's like a shortcut, it'll instantly make you as good as you would be with 50 hours of practice with an old flip-down setup.

 

Let me see if I can put this in an orderly fashion ..........

Flip up and down welding helmets work just fine, but you are blind until the arc starts. Sometimes during that movement, you don't always start your arc exactly where you meant to. They work fine but they can be more difficult when you are doing welds where you are under a vehicle or out of position. They do not have any batteries to fail. For the most part they have exceeded their evolutionary era and most people will like an auto darkening helmet better.
When you are fighting minor nuisances, it affects your weld many times.

Auto-darkening Helmets need replaceable batteries or you have to throw them away when the battery fails. There are different settings to control the shade of darkness. Cheaper helmets often have a limited range of shades available, and they are directed at mig and stick welding needs.
Stepping up a little, you can get shades that also work for Tig welding and/or grinding. I don't ever wear my helmet when grinding.......I have a face shield for that. BUT......the Tig welding settings are handy when I use that welder.
If you don't Tig weld, you don't need the additional settings.

One of the newer developments is called "clear view". It is definitely an advantage worth having. Many times the problems with welding are caused by the inability to see clearly. You think you are seeing things ok, but often you are proceeding somewhat blindly and following the light. Clear View is nice to have.

You can spend a LOT ($500) for some name brand helmets, but you can find mid priced ones for maybe half that.
I stepped up to Miller Hemet years ago and it worked fine...........till it quit and started getting flashes. (I own Miller welders but have had Lincoln in the past) My son bought a Lincoln with clear view on sale for about $250 at the time. He let me try it and I was immediately hooked. Bought me one too.

My grandson got hired in his first real job to weld for a company that makes truck frames. They gave him a little training and a test and hired him. They gave him a Jackson helmet to use. My son tried it and said its even better than the Lincoln one. I looked them up on line and they apparently sell one for about $250 that has shades for Mig welding and one that has more shades for about $450/$500.

If money is limited and someone is just starting, I would get a HF helmet. Don't get the cheapest one or one with some fancy design..........they all get beat up and chipped.Looks like HF has stepped up their price variations. The $50 one is probably OK to start with. I would not spend a lot of money on a HF helmet simply because its not something they specialize in and we all know you can get some good and some bad stuff from them. BUT, a $50 investment is doable. Says it should last 6 years. Sometime later if you want to get more involved in welding, you can look at better helmets.

 

A good welding position is paramount to learning how to weld. Get you work on a bench, get a stool, learn good hand position. Weld away.

 

Learn to JB Weld

Just kidding. I started out MiG welding. Controlling heat is paramount. A quick on off with the trigger especially welding upside down or on thin metal is key. Let that weld cool from cherry red to gray before you squeeze the trigger again. I mainly weld Sheetmetal now with TiG With about 30% on-time pulse.

 

I've been doing a lot of welding lately and can offer one opinion re auto darkening helmets.

If mig welding car bodywork I firmly believe they are essential. When doing what I would call stitch welding, I lay down a small bead, then wait, when my helmet lightens and I can see the weld just laid down still glowing I lay the next bead. This can be repeated probably 50 to 100 times on a simple patch job. You couldn't do it with any other sort of helmet.

Just something I noticed recently.

If you've watched any of my recent videos you will know I have been doing a lot of welding lately.

 

My racing partner was the best welder I have ever seen, all heavy arc, no TIG or MIG. He could braze and gas weld. He told me that welding is 2 things, practice and make sure that you are comfortable.

 

Haven't read the whole thread but my 2cents, the main thing you need is practice. Welding is all about technique. I learned to weld tsking a semester course at junior college in the late 60s. If you have a JC nearby and they still have courses like that, definitely take the course. I learned stick and gas welding there, welded with a Lincoln buzz box and oxy/acetylene for many years. Got a wire feed around 2000 and use it quite a bit, but gas and arc are still indispensable.

Wire feed is good for sheet metal up to about 1/8". I like to use no-flux wire and shielding gas for sheet metal, flux wire for about 16ga on up. Positives - very convenient, controlled heat vs. gas welding. Negatives - weld bead is very hard, a bit difficult to grind/sand smooth. Penetration falls off quickly with metal thickness.

Ark is what I use for everything over 1/8". Positives - Wide selection of rod metallurgy, can run beautiful beads, with a bit of practice, yields perfect penetration, welds as strong as base, weld bead is identical in properties to base metal, grids to perfection. Negatives - need 220V, needs several collections of rods depending on what you are doing, not as convenient as wire feed.

Oxy acetylene gas welding is becoming a lost art but still indispensable for some tasks. Brazing which is a must on a lot of tasks requires it. Personally, it is the only technique I would consider in making exhaust headers. Positives - I believe it gives you much more control than any other welding technique except maybe TIG, Brazing is a must. Negatives - have to carry around gas cylinders, not good for heavy metal joints.

I didn't mention TIG above because I have little experience with it. I bought a Chinese TIG machine to weld some stainless. Got the job done but need a LOT of practice to be proficient. Just never found the need that the other 3 techniques above provide. Positives - great for welding exotic metals; stainless, aluminum, give very high control of the bead for artsy looking welds, hard to do otherwise. Negatives - expensive equipment, step above technique over other welding methods.

 

Now, that puts your Man Card in jeopardy!!

 

Yep, that's real welding.

 

A friend got gangrene from an infection from a non-glove welding mishap...I take it pretty seriously....

 

I been welding for many years and have burned myself enough that I believe I have a complete replacement skin.
Now I'm working on another one.

I wear gloves, and a welding helmet but the sparks always find somewhere to land on occasion. I firmly believe in the old adage ........:"Ya can't fix stupid! I got a burn on my belly thats healing right now. Tig welding a small aluminum tank and flipping it in different ways to make the welds. Had it sitting on top of my vise......good and hot from the previous welds.......it decided to flip over just as I was getting ready to weld and it was between my stomach and the vise. Couldn't let it fall because it would surely land on the filler caps threads if I did. Yep, when you weld...s**t happens.

 

I just ordered a new mask on the strength of the comments made. I noticed after a recent session I was struggling to focus on peoples faces. It soon wore off but that can't be right.

 

My stainless teacher only uses the old school Flip hood for stainless,I weld galvanized on the roof and use my 30 old hood given to me by a friend,it was his dad.
The auto darkening sucks for outside, galvanized shit.
I used my 30 year old flip hood for my stainless projects at school and it worked great.
You can bring an auto darkening at work
But it's not recommended,if it stops working you'll be standing around till you go buy a new one..
Ironworkers only use old flip hoods and so do pipe fitters for the same reason...
Not professional??? Shiit

 

I have seen the old broken flip hoods taken to another level, not what I would recommend. I have seen them dropped 1 time too many and the hoods do break.

I saw a couple of guys cut out the face portion, attach it to a piece of wood and they held it up with 1 hand as they got into some real tight spots where a hood would be in the way.

 

Let us know what you think after you try it out. Some of them have photocells which help maintain the installed battery. I just order a pack of batteries for a few dollars and throw them in a drawer. Then in a few years if I need to replace one, I have it on hand. They are cheap to buy. Some of them last a loooooong time.