Technical 57 Pontiac Brake System Upgrade

Hi All,

I've got a '57 Pontiac Super Chief (USA car) and would like to understand options for upgrading the braking system. I am keeping my drum brakes in front and back (no plans for disc). Looks like the car has a small single reservoir master cylinder that is bolted to the frame just beside the engine on the driver's side. I have to replace it and would like to know what options I can consider. Should I just upgrade to a dual master cylinder? I've read about Hydro-vac, Boosters and hanging pedals, which all seem to be a pain in the ass and require cutting and fabricating. Hoping all of you could offer some simple upgrade options (if there are any). Thanks.

 

Ok.....so I know you don't want to replace the drum brakes but after owning 11, 55-57 Pontiacs and suffering overheated brake fade on some of them, I'd have to buy one of those aftermarket disc brake kits for the front of this car. A Super Chief came with a 347, 4 barrel [afb] that will overpower stock brakes, even if everything is in good condition. I owned one Super Chief...........silver with white top and spear. Never trusted the brakes on it, driving in Portland traffic.

 

@Rocky I may eventually convert to front discs but not in the monetary cards right now. The disc conversion kits are expensive (especially in Canadian dollars).

I am open to adding a booster of some sort. Does anyone have booster suggestions that would be easy to install? Maybe a universal booster?

 

I suspect that your manual master can be an advantage. Some tandem master should fit with much less fabri-cobbling than the Treadle-vac. Those have no great solution due to their placement.

 

Rocky is always good with the advice on Pontiacs.

Me, maybe not so much. I simply get used to keeping distance between me and the person in front of me.

I've had a single master cylinder failure. (Quick grab the e-brake) always make sure they work.

I love mid 50's Pontiacs but any changes always correspond with a good bit of work.

 

@gotta56forme Yes, I am budget challenged because child support for 2 kids and alimony is expensive. Thanks for calling it out in my threads. If I had the money, I would be doing exactly what Rocky mentioned.

So, until I have money to do a disc conversion and the other stuff, should I be putting in a dual master cylinder to replace my single master cylinder? And if I do put in a dual MC, is there anything else that I will need to add, or can I just bolt in the dual and be done?

Also please understand, I'm not a mechanic or car genius. I do this on the weekends in my spare time and I'm learning. This is my first build, so a little slack with my questions is appreciated.

 

FYI, there are some members here that have installed front disc brakes using stock single circuit master cylinder. Am I saying do it? I’ll just say, I have no issue doing it. Same rule applies to any brake system basic or complex. Maintain your brake fluid along with scheduled inspections of all components for worry free motoring.

 

First, get the brakes working well (or perfectly) in the current configuration. This is most important.

Then think about swapping in a dual master as a safety improvement.

The new master should be same size bore as the old master, and designed for drum/drum brakes.

A photo from of current master mounting arrangement would be helpful.

I hope this info will help encourage you get started.

 

@pprather Thank you for the advice. Here is a pic of the current master cylinder mounted on the frame. I was thinking of just starting out with a dual MC swap as a way to get a little more braking power.

 

A single circuit master and dual circuit master of equal bore have equal braking power.

 

Apologies. The dual MC is meant for more safety, not braking power. Better to have more safety.

 

That master looks like a mid 50's Chev master I have on my scrap pile.
One inch piston. Three bolt mount flange.
Rebuild kits should be available on the tri-5 web sites.

 

This is for information and future use, you might find it useful. Note the remark about a dual master. Then go back to the home page, scarebird and new management. It appears this was lifted from an auction site, but make your own judgments. It says US only, but ?

https://scarebird.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=63&product_id=201

 

My past calculations have shown that going from a 1-1/8" single bore MC to a 1" tandem bore will increase braking force, for same pedal travel and effort. At least in my 4 wheel drum car it did work out that way. Good general use would be a Ford MC from a 70' or so Mustang, Fairlane .

 

For reducing fade, you might want to take a look at how 57-62 Corvette RPO 687 big brakes were made. Wider shoes, vented backing plates, and cooling fans. There are improved brake lining materials these days. Seems like development on drum brakes stopped when discs arrived, but it doesn't mean there's not stuff we can do to them.

 

According to Raybestos, the 57 Pontiac MC is a 1-inch bore, but their catalog replacement part looks different. It's a four bold rear mount part. I think @pprather is correct that it's not the original part.

 

Can anyone tell me what year and/or make this master cylinder is?

 

This is what I did to my 51... I believe the braking is the same. I would assume the master is about the same. I cannot remember where I got the master and bracket. I believe it was Scarebird...

I did, in fact, go with front disc brakes. No power. Works well.

I got the idea on the Hamb and communicating with others.

 

Sorry, some of the pics got duplicated... You get the idea.

Good luck.

 

I would think Buick finned drums would fit and help the braking. Or The Pontiac 6 lug aluminum drums and wheels.

 

Be careful when retrofitting master cylinders as they come with/without integral residual pressure valves etc.
Drum brakes usually need a 10 psi residual valve when the MC is mounted low in the frame at a lower or similar height to the axle C/L's.
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...of-the-residual-valve-in-drum-brakes.1220793/

 

We have a AMC manual dual chamber for 4 wheel drums master on or 56 Pontiac. We had to make a custom mount with two down legs and a 90* back to bolt it to, similar to what Classic Driver showed above but mimicking the original shape. We then later added a Scarebird disc brake kit https://scarebird.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=63&product_id=201 ( the company has since been sold and the prices are WAY higher than what we paid) and the manual 4 drum master is just fine with it as it has a big and small chamber. Much better braking with the discs even without power assist, but you really have to put a heavy boot to it (did with the 4 drums too)!

 

Classicdriver has the answer, at least for manual brakes. Replacing the BTV is much more complicated.

 

@ClassicDriver. Looks like Scarebird doesn't have them. They only have brakes for '59 and up Pontiacs. Any chance you could find out where you got that set up from. It looks ideal for what I would like to do.

 

This is what I dug up from my files. The pictures are screen shots from 12 years ago. I bought the piece from Scarebird thru ebay. See the pics of the ebay ad back in the day. Hope this helps.

Good luck.

 

@ClassicDriver Do you happen to know where you go the master cylinder from? Could I use any universal dual MC as long as I have a bracket made to mount it?

 

Yes. I dug up from my files...

It is in the pictures. Wilwood master cylinder, scarebird bracket. See pics. You'll notice I had to modify the bracket a far amount.

 

@ClassicDriver I appreciate the information.

 

If you want to go with power brakes, ABS Power Brakes had a Treadlevac replacement solution. I don't see it currently on their web site, but it was offered fairly recently. See thread here:
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=871860

I have a 57 Pontiac with power Treadlevac setup and am going to deal with the whole braking issue in the future, but a bit more radically. I plan to remove the original heating system and replace with Vintage Air or similar, freeing up the conventional place on the firewall for a traditional booster and MC. Will probably be a dual 9" booster.

I also plan to redo the front frame and suspension with an unmentionable product which will modernize things there and get me more modern suspension, steering rack, and disk brakes.

 

@ClassicDriver Could I use any universal master cylinder and make a mounting bracket for it?