Keep using the starter that has the OEM Bendix drive. The "modern Bendix drive design" is prone to failure. Reinstall a 6V starter and see if that works. It should and will not damage the starter. At least this will tell you if your starter is the problem.
I am still pondering your starter problem and have a couple of questions. Are you using a cast aluminum 8RT truck bellhousing or stamped steel? The 8RT bellhousing is for an 11 in. clutch. Are you working on the engine bolted to an engine stand using the bellhousing bolts? If so, you will not be able to mount your bellhousing and starter plate to the engine block. If possible, please post photos showing your entire engine with the bellhousing and starter plate attached to it along with the starter you are using. This will permit us to see "the big picture". Perhaps I am missing something but, in your photos I cannot see the edges of both the starter plate and the stamped steel bellhousing where they bolt together on the engine. You will see what I mean in the photos below. You must be able to FIRST install your bellhousing (with the starter plate already attached) to the engine block. Both your bellhousing and starter plate must be assembled on your engine in order for the starter to fit. Then the starter will fit correctly. Below are many photos I just took of my 50 Merc bellhousing with starter plate assembled on my 8BA. In 1951 Mercury changed their starter plate design during the year. The Van Pelt site shows the 2 different types of Merc starter plates used in 1951. Which one are you using? The one on the left is the one you need. Ford and Mercury Trans Adapters (vanpeltsales.com) Look carefully at the photos below as they show bellhousing and starter plate installation sequencing. Keep in mind that you should be able to remove the oil pan without removing the bellhousing with starter plate.
The "modern" Bendix is also a PITA to install in some applications. The instructions that come with some of the starters with the "modern" Bendix detail how to grind the bell housing for clearance.
Gave it one more go today this time with real battery cables and not jumpers. Starter motor engaged and clicked like before but still no turnover. Before someone asks yes there are two red cables and the one on the starter was hooked positive and the one on the bell housing bolt mount was ran to the negative terminal. Unless anyone can see something obvious in the following photos regarding the mounting of the starter motor, bell housing, etc. I guess my next move is to try another starter motor.
Those import starters are pure junk that's your problem. Bench testing the starter proves nothing a bad starter always runs on the bench. The best starters to use are the original 6 volt flathead starter which works fine on 12 volts or the Power Master gear drive Ford flathead starter. Heck the original Ford flathead 6 volt starter I have on my roadster has been going fine for 5 decades so far. Only parts I have changed on the original flathead starter has been adding new brushes during its life time and replacing one Bendix spring. On my race car I use a Power Master gear drive starter for the Ford flathead application it works fine every time for 14 years so far. Ronnieroadster
It looks like a number of people here have had good experiences with the Powermaster gear reduction starter but I’ll need to fit everything in a Model A engine bay and am thinking that there is a good chance at having clearance issues based on what I see. Powermaster also has a more traditional styled starter. Does anyone have any experience with that model?
Can’t you just find a rebuilt original? There were only a billion made. Why do people think that the good old stuff needs replacing?
I would expect the Power master stock looking starter would be fine. Since your concerned about clearance issues the gear drive starter is actually smaller and an added plus its also lighter. Also the solenoid is on the starter so the wiring is easier if you don't already have the Ford starter solenoid on the car. Ronnieroadster
I actually have been looking for an original but none for sale around my area. Online sources are mostly beat up units that have no guarantee of working and with shipping costs will be pretty much the same price as the new fancy units. My local bi-monthly auto swap meet isn’t until next month and they have less and less Ford flathead equipment every time I go so there isn’t any guarantee that I would find one their if I waited the month.
I did some more research and it seems that the stock looking starter does seem to have a history of reliability issues as well but the gear reduction starter appears to be liked by most that have used it. I haven’t found any specs on that unit that show what the physical size of the unit is. I only see pictures which I have no point of reference as to the scale. It appears that the unit is more compact in length however the motor drive is in a separate housing that juts up and out of the drive assembly and this is what I am concerned with as to possibly having clearance issues.
Run don't walk away from the original style Power Master flathead starters. I had a Power Master 12 volt original looking starter on my 8ba. What a POS. While still under warranty it would spin but not engage. Returned it to where I bought it and they said it had to go back to Power Master. A day later after I installed my 6 volt back up starter the shop called and said they just went head and fixed it. A year or so later it took a crap again. Returned it to the shop and when they opened it up it was a mess of melted/broken plastic pieces. And as a further insult the actual guts of the starter were half sized fitted into the full size case. I ordered a 12 volt starter from Joe's with the original style USA made Bendix. All fixed now. Van Pelts also sells replacement starters with an original style USA made Bendix.
I currently have two 6 volt starters running on 12 volts with no problems ever. Just don't sit there and grind on it until it burns up. If the engine doesn't start, find out why before you ruin the starter and you'll be fine. Check the famous auction site for "flathead Ford parts". There's always starters there. They are easy to rebuild, if needed. You can change the field coils to make it a 12 volt unit, too.
Your location says you're in SoCal, but that's a big place. I'm in Lancaster, and I've got a couple extra 6 volt Good starters that i'd give you if you came and picked them up.
Thanks for your offer but I am located a bit away on the east side of the San Gabriel Valley. I ordered the Powermaster gear reduction starter and we will see how that works next week.
The plot thickens… Installed the new Powermaster gear starter and it can engage with a hearty thunk but still the flywheel won’t budge. I guess now it has to be some sort of an alignment issue that I’m just not seeing. Will be taking off the whole bell housing assembly and getting out the calipers and angle gauges to go through a full forensic process to see what may not be in the right place.
Can you pop the can off of the backside of the bell housing so you can see the ring gear and starter engage? The one on my Flathead was already missing So maybe it's easy enough to pop it off.
I use the same starter on my 8BA flathead. I did have a little issue with it originally. I used an aluminum starter plate from Flathead Jack. That plate bounced around due to the torque of that little starter so it would not remain engaged in the flywheel. Here is the starter with a heat shield on it and it is clocked so the cabling is away from my headers. To cure the issues I removed the cone from the back of the bell. Sounds easier than done, I wanted to save it and reinstall but I utterly destroyed it taking it off. I still run it without the cone but I really should make something and shove it in there. However, it did give me access to view the engagement of the starter and flywheel so I could shim and align the starter. The other issue was the aluminum starter plate I bought from Flathead Jack. it allowed my starter to "dance" and not stay engaged. I drilled and added dowels to locate that plate on the bell and brace the starter so it could bounce around. That was many years, many miles and many happy starts ago I am happy to report. Not the same problems you are having but perhaps this can help in some small way. Once you get your problems figured out you will be happy with that little starter.
Do those cans pop off with a good whack of the hammer? I always assumed that it was part of the bell housing and not a separate piece.
Perhaps I missed it but, can you put a wrench on the front crank pulley nut and turn the engine over one complete revolution to show that the flywheel is not obstructed in some way? Is the camshaft timing gear , camshaft and oil pump idler gear turning freely? PLEASE take photos of how it looks when you take the bellhousing and starter plate apart and post what it looks like. Is there a bolt or something else obstructing the turning of the flywheel? Please help identify 49-53 block - The Ford Barn
Maybe they did when new but mine had a death grip on that bell housing. Definitely a separate piece pressed it there, just not designed to be a service item. I had to bisect it, cut down the sides with a Sawzall and chisel it out.
Yes we can turn the crank pulley with a ratchet and socket and cycle through a full turn. When I put a torque wrench on it there seems to be between 20-30 lb ft of torque required to turn.
Ok removing this seems like a good idea to be able to see the gearing fully with the bell housing fully on and since my cup is dinged up quite a bit I will need to clean that up eventually anyway. I’ll try that next week when I’m back at trying to identify what’s going on.
Whack the cup back and forth with a rubber hammer. It will work it's way out, or you can stick a piece of wood in the starter hole and knock it out that way. I'm beginning to wonder if the ring gear on the flywheel is the correct one (?). There seems, on the surface anyway, that there is nothing else wrong with this thing.
I had a similar problem. My original 6 V starter knocked the ring gear off the flywheel. It was jamming between flywheel and engine case, starter was not turning. Have a look inside the starter hole and look if the ring gear is sitting correctly on the flywheel. When you turn the crank from its front end, you might be turning just the crank but not the ring gear.
If the ring gear is not aligned properly on the flywheel or is not the correct one, the starter will jam and won't/can't turn the engine. That sounds like the best guess, all things considered. I've said this before, the steel bell housing should not be a problem if you have the proper starter plate. The starter should go straight in and not be canted a couple of degrees. The wrong plate will cause the exact problem you are having. Lay the plate on its back side on a flat, smooth surface. Put a straight edge, centered across the starter hole and the crankshaft cutout, if it has one, and carefully measure the distance from the ends of the straight edge to the flat surface under the plate. They should be the same. If not, you have a problem that can only be solved with the right part. These plates are starting to get scarce and some sellers are taking advantage of that when it comes to price. Good luck and shop wisely.
The starter plate and bell housing on the left is the one you need. Notice that in 1951 Mercury changed its design during the model year 1951. That's shown on the right. The rare #6411 rubber seal is not needed to make it all fit together properly. The VanPelt site also shows correct 1949-50 Merc bellhousing with starter plate. http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/flathead_trans-adapters.htm It would be great if you could post photos of the starter plate and bellhousing you are working with. Hope it all works out.
Pulled the bell housing and starter plate off today. Double checked the starter plate and both mounting holes for the starter motor were parallel and the same distance from the plate bottom. Both bell housing and starter plate mount together flush with no signs of one or the other not being parallel to the engine block. Rotated the crank pulley to check the fitting of the flywheel and ensure it is parallel to the block. Visually everything looked ok but haven’t put the gauge on it to measure precise run out if present yet. I then proceeded to attempt to remove the cup from the bell housing. Hammering did not work so I thought bringing it over to the hydraulic press would do the trick. I stopped when some hairline cracks started to appear on the bell housing near the cup. It looks like these cups are quite set in there with the ends of the cup opening flanged after being pressed into the bell housing hole. I think my next move will be to cut off the cup with an angle grinder and leave about 1/2 inch of the tube length so I will have somewhere to weld a cap or fabricated cup when that time comes. Once I cut the cup end off then I will be able to see more clearly (I hope) what is going on between the teeth of the flywheel and the starter gear.
The Jalopy Journal
