I know the cowl steering issue has been beat to death in a previous thread. My question is if anyone has had experience with Outlaw Hot Rod Parts cowl steering boxes. I know the Rolling Bones have used a few and the pictures on the Outlaw Instagram page really look good. Good steering ratio 24-1 better than an 8-1 Schroeder. Just looking for a future project.
After all that has been written about how wrong the geometry of cowl steering is, why would you even consider it?
If the Rolling Bones cars can go from New York to Bonneville every year and the Hilton Hot Rods can drive all over the country both with cowl steering it must work for some? I've done one and it worked good but it was an 8-1 ratio Schroeder and it was hard steering. The Outlaw box is 24-1 which should be an improvement. I'm just investigating. I have the upmost respect for the varied opinions expressed here on the HAMB. It's hard to beat the tried and true Vega box, I've done 100's of chassis with a Vega over the last 40+ years with no problems. My favorite vintage steering is a Neal Jennings modified Hudson box which when installed in the conventional side steering spot in a 32 Ford with the upward angle of the drag link going to the spindle shouldn't work either but my last highboy deuce pickup was done that way and drove fine. Gotta step outside the box occasionally.
I'll guess I'll chime in and say I've built 2 cars with cowl steering and both were good drivers.i used BMW boxes on both
Can’t help ya on the box. My old boss has built a couple cowl steering cars. His geometry doesn’t visually match the stuff on the threads here. He claims the cars drive great. No bumpsteer.
What would 3W Larry do? Me too! Sure, some "experts" say cowl steering is crap, then others with positive results (like you Gary) love them, I'd try it myself if I wasn't already deep in the Vega style setup in my roadster.
You could also use a longer pitman arm, make the geometry better, and have the ratio closer to 16 to 1.
Yeah, but that's hardly an example of regular street use on regular roads and highways. They also have tires of different diameters on each corner and so on...
I’m sorry to be another one not answering your question…but I have built a car with cowl steering, have been involved in the build of an other. Both Track Master Products boxes and both were awful. We have a customer who bought a former rolling bones car with cowl steering and absolutely hates it. Another customer just bought a ‘32 roadster with cowl steering. Nice car. He flew to Wisconsin I think it was, and drove it back to Texas. His biggest complaint….the cowl steering sucks.
While waiting for the Schroeder I'm putting in my avatar 34 to come from Ididit, I called Rolling Bones to see what they were doing. Told me they didn't want to wait for Ididit and were going with Trackmaster. I don't do instagram, X or facebook but would like to know more about the one from Outlaw Hot Rod parts and Track Master. Post here if possible. For those that don't like cowl sterring, Don't run one! I have a lot of miles in my last 34 3W with a Schroeder and liked it. Thats why I'm putting one in my current 34.
Check out Outlaw Hot Rod Parts on Instagram. Looks like a high quality product, may be out of my price range? Shows the finished box and the assembly process. I talked to John who is I think the owner today and he is sending me information and pricing the first of the week.
Got the product information from Outlaw today. Extremely high quality product and parts. After I caught my breath I may have to rethink cowl steering. I'm still trying to find Track Master but so far have not been successful?
Box looks REALLY nice! I would run one. I used a 30s GM truck box in my old T and it drove great. But, the odds of me finding another laying on the ground of the salvage yard are probably nil! I have looked at the Bimmer boxes in the past, looks like another good option.
Moriarity, just making a quick scale reference, I assume the pitman arm is about 6 inches long. So that would mean the travel is a similar length. How many hot rods do you know with six inches of travel in the front suspension? As Borntoloze said, if the travel is a lot less, the bump steer is a lot less. And probably livable.
View attachment 5840659 I had the pleasure to help Judy out with her Bone's 32 Tudor, An got to drive it down rt. 80 up to 75-80 mph... She has Schroeder in her's... Perfect!!!
Do you know of any "hotrod" that has THAT much suspension travel ? Not many side delivery steering configurations would work perfect in that scenario .
@krylon32 My good pal and club Brother Ben Haag is now the caretaker of the 575 bones car. He is very knowledgeable on all the bones cars, having worked on quite a few. He would know the answer to your question. He is not on here like he used to be, but if you would like I can get you his number, just message me.
I did on my old T while I was building it. With the limited amount of travel these cars have the input was minimal at the most. I have posted this many times as well, my OT 2002 Ranger, which by all accounts was engineered by actual engineers, had horrible bump steer. Low speed bumpsteer would rap you in the knuckles and the steering wheel even had an odd eccentric path as you turned it through its range. Not something you would expect on a modern veechile.
Geometry is a FACT! You can quote all the people you want, but it still comes down to GEOMETRY. If you car has almost no suspension movement you can get by with cowl steering and suffer the harsh ride. You can put all the bandaids you want on it, but it is still wrong, and going to bump steer. If you do it because it just looks cool and you don't drive your car, OK, go for it.
Have you ever BUILT a car with cowl steering? Driven one in anger? I have. And that car got absolutely driven hard and put away wet. Everything from 100mph passes at Mokan to 80+ down the highway to full on gravel drifts ala Pikes Peak since we live a mile and a half off the pavement on gravel.
The guys who don’t like cowl steering should also argue that cut coils, lowering blocks, chopped tops, and fenderless cars are not safe. Every one of those common mods has a detriment. But we live with them in the name of “cool”.
I will be sure to report back with a driving test result on my first cowl steering car. I can for sure report now about negative affects of the mods I mentioned above. Sure, they weren’t bad enough to make me restore the cars to stock. But I expect the cowl steering will have the same scenario.
This is going to turn into the Eastwood 2.0 thread if everyone is going to talk the jumper down! For F' sake, Can we just have a thread about the different ways the VooDoo can be pulled off To "Our" liking!
I’m not going to comment on what works or does not work on somebody’s car. Since I did create the original videos, I do want to clarify what the geometry is. I think I have modified the original drawing since I did that, so I will show this video with 2 1/2 inches each of bounce and rebound for a total of 5 inches. The video will also show what happens when you only travel half the distance, a little over 1 inch up and down. Interestingly, with cowl steering the greater distance the suspension travels, the more the pitman arm moves. No such movement on Early Ford style.
The Jalopy Journal
