Technical 1960 Ranchero inline 6 questions

It is good info, but not for the OP.

The engine in question won't fit in his engine compartment.

 

Well, I just thought that should the OP try to apply a bit of hot rodder ingenuity to make the 250 he already has work in his ride that it may help him.
I'm still wondering why the radiator can't be mounted in front of the horse collar to gain a few more inches, especially in view of the fact the car already has a custom grille.
I've used the trans I mentioned to put a 300 in a Pinto.
I also had a '64 Sprint into which I put a 240 (3" longer than a 250). I moved the radiator ahead of the horse collar.

 

Later '60's - early '70's Falcons are a whole different breed of cat compared to '60 - '65.

 

Yes, I was really only posting a picture of an engine for reference, not trying to make out it will fit in an early 60's Falcon.

 

This is not a vehicle equipped with a "horse collar" style radiator support. It is a full panel that is an integral part of the unibody structure.

I take it you missed the pictures that I posted. Those are of the same chassis that he has.

If you move the radiator forward, you have to remove the center support for the grille, and the bottom 4-bars off of the middle of the grill, and the center of the filer panel to make room for it.

Not only will that look terrible, it will leave you with an unsupported grille that will crack over time, a fully exposed section of the radiator, and a hood that cannot be latched, as the hook would no longer have anything to attach to.

Never mind that the center span of the radiator support is the only structural element at the top of that panel. Removing it will allow that forward splash panels, and now orphaned sections of the radiator support to to vibrate. This will lead to cracking over time.

Additionally, taking this crowned, channel shaped structure out of the radiator support transfers the structural function of it to the radiator itself!

 

I hate that I have to keep bringing up what should be tribal knowledge by now, but '60-'61.1 Falcons and the variants built on that platform are built with fewer layers of metal, and thinner metal in the unibody than '61.2 and on 6-cylinder variants. Even the subframe rails are shorter and narrower.

It only took Ford about 18-months of production and sales to realize that there might be a problem. It was bad enough in some cases that they elected to revise the body shell in the middle of 1961!

As a some time automotive engineer for a major automaker, I cannot tell you how difficult and expensive it would have been, even then, to make that change. You don't do that on a whim.

Even the later V8 chassis variant do not take kindly to having unibody components removed. Take the brace out from under the engine and you will have a unibody failure over time. Take the export braces out, and you will have the same thing. Take the gravel guards off of the outside of the shock towers and those will crack over time, too.

I have owned several Falcons over the years, in all platforms. I have cut up even more for parts. My family has had even more than that.

I have already seen examples of all of these mistakes, so please don't tell me what think will happen. And please, please do not give someone advice that will result in severe damage to their vehicle.

Ever see a hot SBF equipped '63 make a clean strong pass on slicks, only to see the very upset driver have to climb out the window? I have.

I currently own an autocross/road race prepped 1960 Falcon, that has probably somewhere near 220lbs of additional metal to keep it from self-destructing, including in, get this, THE DOORS!

Yes, even the doors on the early Falcons have a weak spot prone to failure. Mine had it, and both did.

These cars were intended to be built as disposable, entry-level, loss-leader cars. They were never intended to last any longer than to get the customer loyalty built.

The least amount of engineering was done on them, and the minimum quantity and grade of materials were used, except that for the first 18-months they missed them mark, and undershot.

If you own one of these variants, be happy that it even still exists. Don't anger the gods of speed by removing structure from it. Please them by adding some.

 

Gimpyshotrods is telling you the 100% absolute truth. I know. He was gracious enough to help me through this exact same situation a little over a month ago. I found myself with a nice little 1st gen Falcon wagon with a very bad engine and trans in it. I thought that a 250 would fit in there, I mean, they look the same……. (but not when side by side…) I dropped the 250 in there with the matching C4. First thing I asked Gimpyshotrods was “what starter do I need….. The low mount starter will not clear your stock steering, sorry. Next was “my oil pan is sitting on the frame brace”, Yep and the hood won’t close and the rad won’t fit….. well, now there is a nice 200 in there and it’s still a tight fit. Really tight. ‘Save yourself the headache and listen to the wise knowledge being imparted by Gimpyshotrods.
Or, get real friendly with the hot wrench, BFH and mig welder. Cut it all up and carry on.
The other most helpful advice given was to drive it with the smokey 200 while you rebuild the other 200.
Of course. None of this really takes into consideration your fab skills or pain tolerance. Like I said, you could become great friends with the hot wrench, BFH and mig welder.

‘Thank you again for your help Gimpyshotrods. It’s all coming together now.

 

Very cool. Don't listen to the sbc simpletons. They just can't think outside the box. Just find the bits you need. The 250 is a good engine.

 

The 250 won't fit in the OP's engine bay. Simple, even for a simpleton......
Sometimes, even a monotonous point of view can benefit from the incorporation of some actual facts......

 

Well said.

 

Awesome thank you

 

Well the job may be a little simpler for the Aussies since they're probably dealing with the steering on the RH side. But there still seems to be plenty of other obstacles to take into consideration. Regardless of what side of the equator you're on.

 

Bought this motor months ago. Haven't had time to mess with it yet. Pulled the 200 around the same time. It didn't smoke, it was cruisable slow, but giving it gas to really get it up to speed would make it start sputtering and backfiring and want to turn off.

I'm going to un tarp everything soon to inspect the motor to see if it actually is a 250 or if it's a 200. Because the other guy had it in his falcon running before I bought it and he didn't mention any clearance issues he had.

 

Ya, with the 200 in it it was real tight. Had to move radiator forward but couldn't go any further with hood latch where it is.

 

Ya my car is heavily modified. Full box tube frame, complete re done floor and tunnel. And I modified core support to push radiator forward already. Was wondering if there are steering clearance issues if oil pan could be cut.

 

The grille is factory. I just cut the turn signals out to fit the tbird quad lights. And painted the grille black except for the large horizontal bars. I pushed the radiator as forward as I can go I think, but I'll look again to see if I can come up with anything else. If too many clearance or parts issues then I'll just put the rebuilt trans back on the 200 that was in it and leave it. The trans did need to be re built so it should be better than before.

 

I built a full 2x3 box tube frame for it. Somewhat copying the factory "frame" shapes and locations, except the rear had to be completely different for rear end clearance. I re made all the floor in the cab, tunnel, and firewall. I kept it all unibody still. Plug welding and stitch welding floor to frame. And box tube welded solid to inner rockers.

I ended up taking an inch off the bottoms of the sides of engine compartment, firewall, and core support where they meet the frame, to lay body, so good clearance and will probably be an issue, among others it seems. Thanks for be the heads up.

 

If you're 200 is old enough or has had some mis-matched parts swapped onto it and is still a "weak suck", probably one of the first things to check is to see if it has a correctly matched carburetor and distributor. Fords of this vintage used a Loadamatic ignition system and both the carb and distributor were Loadamatic specific and had to be used as a set to work properly. And even then they could be troublesome.

Search the HAMB or elsewhere online for infomation about the Loadamatic system and how it works, or doesn't. There are ways to upgrade using later model, simpler, more conventional componements.

 

So seeing as how the guy I got it from had it in his falcon, I'm thinking it's a 200 he told me or thought himself was a 250. I will uncover it and check it out in the next day or so to see what it is.

 

Sounds like a good chance it just has an ignition/fuel issue, as symptoms caused by poor compression generally show up worst at low rpm and idle when there is little air in the cylinder and lots of time for it to leak out, on full throttle, high rpm you let lots of air in and give it very little time to leak out so even a pretty sick cylinder can perform rather well.
I suppose it could be a worn cam lobe or something like that not lifting a valve very much, so it just breathes well enough to run well at low power, at high rpm the barely open valve induced asthma kills it. Not familiar with the engine but I'm guessing you don't need to take much apart to see if all valves open as they should.

 

It makes it kind of hard to give useful advice when we only now know this.

Difficult for anyone who isn't there to know what will work without knowing the details of all of the modifications.

 

Ya I don't really know much besides real basic mechanical stuff. It has oil foulers on the plugs to push the plugs out further and kind of shield them from oil I'm guessing. I was thinking maybe at higher rpm oil was getting onto the plugs causing misfires. But I really don't know, Im not a mechanic. I'm a fabricator body man and painter.

 

The ignition system is a newer modern ignition. Not sure what carb is on it.

 

Count the number of water pump mounting bolts
200's have 3 bolts and 250's are 4 bolt [so they are not interchangeable]

Later "fox body" 200's have a longer water pump than early [these can swap over with matching pulleys]
So if you have a later 200 squeezed in, you can gain some clearance with earlier pump and pulleys

Here [stolen off the internet]


If you plugs are fouling , go up in the heat range.

The carb could be the issue with fouling plugs [are the plugs "sooty" or "oily"?]
You can't go wrong with a Carter YF 1 barrel on these engines

 

I adhere to the same policy. However, I had a buddy who built about 1 custom car a year. All of his engines were out of high mileage wrecked cars (he ran a body shop). He always lucked out. In fact when I was building my Model A with a relatively high mileage nailhead, he kept telling me to not take it apart, just drop it in and drive it. It came out of a 65 Electra and which I drove it home. It came apart and I was amazed at how worn out it really was.

 

So, it's definitely a 250. And it measures longer at water pump, and taller. ‍ So now, looks like the 200 I pulled out is going back in, but with the trans freshly rebuilt. Any ideas on stuff to look for to stop it from fouling plugs, without digging too deep into it? I don't know how to do internal work and my mechanic buddy is a Chevy guy and doesn't know Ford's very well.

 

This is the carb on the 200. I have no clue what kind it is.

 

This is the carb on the 250

 

So thinking back, the guy had the 250 installed in the falcon and running. But he never mentioned driving it. And I saw it with the hood up. He had paperwork showing a recent rebuild. And it did seem odd to me to pay for a rebuild, install it, only to pull it back out to put a different engine in it. He was putting in a 302. Which is what I was considering, but couldn't find at the time.

So maybe, he was unaware of clearance issues, until after he installed it, and never drove it, but wanted to show that it was in a car running in order to sell it.

 

....and had no qualms about selling it to someone with a Falcon, that it wouldn't fit into.....