Hot Rods The "Whatever" project

Negative on the baking

 

Good to know. That would certainly look good on the Whatever project!

 

Well everyone, ratrodder got a new to me lathe over to my garage this past weekend. We spent the day Saturday making a stand for it out ov some scavenged i-beams I had, plus some random box tubing and angle iron. Still a couple of details that need to be addressed, but the kid can weld pretty good. No pictures yet.

I'll get back to the garage when I pass a kidney stone in a day or two, so that's all the news that is fit for print.

And thanks again to the 2 guys that made a new lathe to me possible: ratrodder and zeke. Give me a couple of weeks and I'll be turning stuff out like nobody's business...

Mainly chips and scrap...

 

It was fun to get behind a welding lens again! I'll send you the photos I took.

 

Yikes, Those stones are no fun!! Get better and get building!!

 

Put them here, I'll let you do the naration

 

Here's where we found ourselves last Saturday morning:
Next step: build something to get the lathe up off the floor and at a comfortable working height!

 

After a bit of rummaging through the parts piles, we came up with some "scrap" I-beams of a suitable size, some leftover bits of steel, and a few wild ideas. Time to get welding!

 

A few hours later, with barely any grinding done, we had ourselves a welded, sturdy stand, ready to be moved into final position. A wooden top to connect the stand to the lathe, a tray at the bottom of the stand for some additional mass, and maybe some paint, and we'll be in business!

 

Sweet deal there Dave!

 

Been waylaid by a kidney stone and muscle spasms in my back. So time to cogitate and ruminate on the remaining steps will be. Alex and I discussed the board it was transported on, plywood or something from the next door neighbor's wood stock (no, not Woodstock). Then, in a drug induced stupor, as I laid in bed writhing around in pain, waiting for the spasms to subside, I decided on the perfect materials for the remaining steps.

A butcher's block top will look like it belongs there after toasting it with a giant propane torch. Then a little bit of oil rubbed in. To get some mass down low, we decided that I should get some 1.5x1.5 angle iron and make a well between the two legs. Then some sheetmetal to form a tray. Concrete and we got some mass...

Finish will most likely be whatever I find in the garage or shed that's still usable. Remember that I am color challenged at the blue-green end of the spectrum, so if I tell you it's something that it's not, cut me some slack.

So that also covers some of our family's heritage: Scots-the thrifty side, and Italian the concrete side (hey it's in our blood...). We don't talk about the rest of the heritage. Rumors have it there were horse thieves in the long ago past.

 

Yes it was! Thanks Zeke once again. I'm chomping at the bit to get started making chips and scrap... No wait! I mean parts!

 

I’ve been looking to buy an old Craftsman or Atlas lathe to match my drill press and bandsaw. Nice find!

 

Just by chance one day, I was perusing the antiquated for sale adds here, and it was there. Fortunately for me, I have a great nephew who lives near where it was located, and he went and picked it up for me. And he met Zeke, a fellow hamber, who just by chance lives very close to ratrodder's future home. So I got the lathe, and ratrodder and Zeke will probably be bench racing in the future over tall cool ones.

So being a nut for past technology, I have been looking for an Atlas bench mill, the horizontal version. I'd like to get one, and the vertical mill attachment. But probably won't get serous about one, well unless it's close to home. And their shaper.

Don't tell SWMBO tho

 

About 1979 I used a Watts link on the front of the QC. My super late model chassis. I made the seal plate and used an Oilite bearing. About a 10" roll center. You can see the left frame extension for the left link. I continued to use the Watts link on my road race chassis. Speedway Enginering came out with one like mine later.

 

Here's a track nose I built 1966. I used the round part from a 1950 Chevy truck hood. Can't find the nose picture. Ran without the nose because of over heating. I installed this 34 Ford truck grille s hell for 1967.

 

And to think, when you built it, deuce frames were still available and nothing special.

 

Earlier in this thread, there was a watts link on the rear. I made it from 6061-T6 stock I had. I decided to not use it, mainly due to space limits. No one ever told me just how small a T body really is...

The roll center was a bit higher than you had. The pivot was about in line with the pinion. Had I thought it out, or seen pictures of your setup to plaigerize, that would have been a better solution. Maybe I'll have to rethink it and make a new seal plate, and bell crank assembly. It certainly would be better than the short panhard bar currently in the Whatever project...

 

No progress on the car or lathe other than spending a lot of money this week. More stuff for the exhaust, some bits and bobs for the V8-60 tube axle to see if I can make it fit in the Whatever project, and parts for the steering system. Amazing how fast it adds up these days...

 

Got 2 boxes of parts Monday, exhaust tubing of various types, a pile of Ford tie rod ends, batwings and spacers for the V8-60 tube axle, and a set of 53-56 F100 kingpins. Why the kingpins you ask?

After cleaning up the tube axle, I mocked up the spindles on it that I want to use, a set of 48-52 F1 spindles. I've mentioned them before, and reiterate here, these spindles are almost identical to 46-48 passenger car spindles except for the size of the inner bearing and seal areas, which are significantly larger. I have the correct bearings and adapters to fit the brakes I plan on using, so the only issue is the kingpin bores in the axle. They are worn a little bit, 5 to 10 thousandths of an inch. Poking around I have found this is not unreasonable to find.

And the easiest way to fix the problem is with oversized kingpins. Which I couldn't find for the normal 0.812 inch diameter kingpins passenger car spindles use. However, the F100 kingpins are 0.859 to 0.861 inch diameter. Jeremy over on the 1950's Tube Frame Sports Car had the same issue. He remedied by boring the axle in his milling machine, which I don't have. I'm going to use a 6 blade adjustable hand reamer to enlarge the bores to close to the final fit of the F100 kingpins and finish up on the Sunnen honing machine.

And here's an interesting tidbit of information regarding the F1 spindles I'm using. The F100 kingpin bushings just happen to be the correct dimensions to fit in the F1 spindles, no extra machine work necessary. Just press in and hone to size. And interestingly, the F1 bushings are the same as those in the 46-48 passenger car spindles. And it looks like the length is the same, at least putting them side by side. If there's any real difference, it's insignificant.

So I guess I'll have to live with square flange spindles appearance wise, instead of the better looking round flange spindles. It's a small bit of progress, but it IS progress! Pictures later, as my back is screaming at me again...

 

63,64 and 65 I used 32 Chevy rails. I liked them best. Wisconsin rules required O E M rails and bodies albiet cut down cut down allowed. 1966, Jim Jones brought me a pair of 32 Chevy rails to build him a car. Totally rusted out. I said if you give me the OK I will build the frame using 2 x 4 tubing. He said OK. I welded up the inside to make it appear I had boxed the rails. I drilled holes outside to look like fender and running board holes. Rules said O E M rails from axle to axle. I built round tube extensions front and rear.

 

.859 king pins. I think you have F100 spindles, not F1. 5 degree inclination. 38 tube axle 9 degree inlination. Lots of NEGATIVE camber. 63, 64, 65 I used F100 spindles [because of the larger K P and stronger steering arms] on Mopar 9 degree tube axles. Had to straighten up the right a little and a little more on the left. 1964. Thought I had a better picture. I continued to use F100 spindles when I started to make my own tube axles about 1968. My jig for building axles. Only built a few dropped axles. Went to straight for strengt h Thew it away when I started building super late models.

 

Yeah, I know about the different kingpin inclinations. 19 years old and I knew better...

Built the first tube axle for my 1st modified in 74, and matched the axle pin angle to a 48 Ford axle I had. But I got a set of F100 spindles from a friend's backyard for free. And I bored both spindle adapters to fit over the larger inner bearing and seal areas. So no going back. The right side was cambered really nicely about 5 degrees negative camber. But so was the left side, 5 degrees negative camber. And then add in the large right front tire and the "pony" wheel little tiny left side tire, and let me tell you that right front had some negative camber!

At one of the area tracks that is flat, it seemed to work okay. Of course the left front was a foot off the ground in the corners. But at the Valley, our home track, which is highly banked, roughly 30 degrees in the corners, wall city! The axle was made from square tubing, and heavy wall at that. Should have put the 48 Ford spindles, even tho they were in rough shape, on. But no, because I knew better...

The next year, I built a typical round tube axle and used 40 Ford spindles and new spindle adapters with the kingpin angles set to give 0 degrees camber with the 40 spindles, and get the positive and negative camber with tire sizes. The right front was a match for the right rear, made extending tire life easier that way. And the left front was a Bridgestone tire, very low profile, that effectively gave us about 3 degrees negative on the right side and 3 degrees positive on the left side. Lesson learned...

So I the F1 spindles I'm using are almost identical to the spindles from a 46-48 Ford passenger car, the only difference being the size of the inner bearing races and seal areas. Everything else matches, including the kingpins. And the kingpin inclination matches. So what I discovered was that the F100 kingpins are just enough larger in diameter that with reaming and honing to fit, I'll be able to use them in the F1 spindles and the V8-60 tube axle. Laying the kingpins side by side, even the lock pin notch appears to be in the same location.

And best of all the spindle bushings are the same od, just thinner walled. So no need to bore the spindles for a different size bushing.

 

And did you ever cross paths with Jim Langenback from up here in the northeast? Most of the tracks around here required car frames until the early 70s, Lebanon Valley allowing 2x4 tube frames in the modifieds in 73, and in the limited class in 75.

But Jim built the 54 coupe with a Tobias tube frame from plans. For 1974! And Paul, tech inspector, went to Jim's shop and okayed it i the building stage. Jim used a Ford station wagon frame, sort of.

In reality he did just like you, and made a 2x4 frame, and added big gussets on the inside of the kickups to match the shape of the Ford frame. And welded arcs to make the rails look like they were factory formed and Jim added big gussets instead on the outside of the kickups for aded strength. And wlds simulating plugging the hole in real frame rails. All of that is to get around the rules just like you did. It evolved over a few seasons into a Gremlin bodied car, and is still running in vintage circles up here.

Here's a picture of the thing opening night 1974, its first time out and its first win:
Yes, you can see his feet. The engine ran hot with the side panels, so off they came. Good times!

 

Karl Kulow Plymouth Wisconsin 1953. This guy was so good and so smooth. Chevy coupe with Ford front suspension and a G M C engine running against flatheads. I joined the Air Force in 1954. I think Karl won the M S C championship [ 4 tracks ] in 1954 and he ran # 1 in 1955. The change over had begun from hard tops to modifieds. They thought the Henry J was smaller. # 1 now running an Olds V-8. Look at that camber . That's a hard top behind.

 

Like Archie and Edith sang, "Those were the days..."

I started attending the Valley at 6 years old, and it was cars similar to that which were running. Flatheads, inline 6s were in coupes and coaches, straight axles etc. Late model sedans ran a-arm front suspension and could run overheads, but the engine had to match the car manufacturer. Midyear Chevy and Ford were the most popular. Butthen they started open competition races, and the outsiders were winning everything. For instance, Frankie Schneider in his coupes or coaches with whatever BIG engines he could get, 421 Pontiacs as I remember were some of his favorite engines. Finally the Valley started allowing overeads at first with around a 340 cid limit, moving to 355 or so by the early 70s. Then big blocks with unlimited displacement by 74ish timeframe.

I started helping in high school late 60s, and bought the first car, a 57 Chevy, in 1970. Wasn't much to brag about. But helping out got me into a lot of garages. And paying attention was easy. And building the 1st modified at 19, well that was just crazy, but it came out alright. Here's me and the car. Yeah, I'm still that ugly, but bald now 50 odd years later. Injected 350 on methanol. Had a 200 pound weight break. And looking for a picture of the front axle from the front, but not finding a god one, reminded me of the springs in this beast: Reese load lveling hitch spring bars, leading and trailing. With 3 bar sizes, and multiple jack screw locations on each, there was pretty good adjustability. Altho we had no idea what the rates were...

Hey, I was 19 and I knew better!

 

Finally got some quality time in the garage today. Did a couple of things, nothing earth shattering.
Had to get rid of those fugly chromed aftermarket valve covers on the 283. Got thiis setof stagger bolt valve covers from California a couple of weeks ago. Decided to swap them out today. That's Sharpie on the lettering. And I'm not going to hammer out the wrinkles and lumps. Gives them that lived in look. Yeah I know, so what???

My adjustable hand reamer is long enough that it will cut the bosses bores and stay square to the bores while doing it. I'll sneak up on the final size of the F100 kingpins and finish up on the bores with the Sunnen honing machine. Of course first I have to make an effort to get the garage straightened up so I can get at the machine! And I have to find my large tap handle. Put it somewhere, just not where I thought it was. Found the big die handle, but it doesn't help. I know it's in the garage, just where it is I haven't a clue right now...

So before I make the bores fit F100 kingpins, I set up the axle and F1 spindles to make sure that the F1 spindles are dimensionally equivalent to passenger car spindles, with the exception of the spindle pin.
And the answer is... yes! Same inclination as 46-48 square back spindles. And also earlier... guess I didn't have to add that! Remember, I'm Captain Obvious, I state the obvious with impunity!

To show the only difference, I took pictures of the bearing adapters that fit the same GM hubs to either set of spindles.
On the left is the adapter for passenger car spindles, and on the right is the adapter for the F1 spindles.
It's a little hard to see, but look closely and you can see the passenger car spindle adapter with the F1 adapter on top of it. There's quite a difference in the inside diameters, the F1 spindles having what I think is the same diameter as an F100 spindle. The adapter kit was marked as fitting 48 thru 55 or 56? F1 and F100 truck spindles.

Now there is one thing that I find interesting and would like to see how Ford actually set up for steering on the truck that these spindles fit.
You'll notice in these last 2 pictures that the right side spindle only has one tie rod end boss. And close examination of the first of these pictures also shows that the boss was not cut off. You can see the forging pattern is still there. So this raises the question: how did the drag link attach to the front end? Someone earlier said that Ford used a really ugly bolt on steering arm on the left side. I haven't been able to find a picture of the thing out on the internet, but then again remember that I am semi-computer illiterate. So if anyone has an F1 pickup and feels inclined to crawl under it and get a picture or two of the steering...

Oh well, I don't really need to know. Just being anal retentive, as probably all engineers tend to be regarding the details...

That's all for now...

 

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/what-year-spindles-do-these-look-like.1180345/

 

Not quite the same. Here's the one's I have:
Both sides have forged on steering arms. Here's the one's you referenced:
The passenger side has the forged on steering arm, the driver's side has a bolt on arm. Frames has said that 2nd set are 53-56 F100 spindles. The set I'm using are 48-52 F1 spindles. They are almost identical to the spindles from a 46-48 Ford passenger car, the only differences are the inner bearing and seal areas are larger, and the passenger side doesn't have a boss for another tie rod end for cross steering.

It does seem that the F100 and F1 spindles use the same inner bearing. The kingpin inclination is different, the F1 matches passenger car spindles from 28 thru 48. The F100 is shallower. Also the kingpins are the same as 46-48 Ford passenger car front spindles use. The F100 kingpins are larger in diameter, 0.859 vs 0.812. Which is handy, as the V8-60 front axle I have is a little loose on standard kingpins.

Thanks for the reference, now I have a picture of the F100 spindles.

 

Here's a complete chassis, but the area you want to see is hidden.
https://jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/1948-52-ford-f1-chassis.1147619/
Most searches show either a rod with the box swapped in OR a truck that's been updated with power steering.
There is this big truck setup showing the steering, I don't know what is different. It looks to have the same loop, but I'd guess it's more HD.It also has a bolt on passenger side.