Technical 54 New Yorker 331 Engine Removal Help needed

Hi all, I did a search, but couldn't find the information I need:

I am down to a short block in the car, and the front clip is off. (Pic below) The engine does not rotate. I plan to remove the engine shortly. it is a late 54 non extended block.

I have limited space to pick out the engine, about 3 feet in front of the frame to the wall. With the clip off, I should be able to remove it from an angle over the front left tire, but I don't think I will have room to pull the transmission with the engine, (or do I?....) so I am here to ask for some help please:

I need to confirm exactly what needs to be unbolted to get the trans off the engine, in the car.

The shop manual for removing transmission from the engine, after disconnection of the usual fare, says as in the image, two lower, two upper "case to adapter" screws.... I assume this is to leave the bell housing attached to the engine?

Is this the way to go or should I detach the engine from the bellhousing? Is that possible with a stuck engine?

Thanks in advance, this is my first pull, and I'd like to have a full understanding of what I am getting into before I start.... and not damage some unobtanium pieces in the process.

 

Back when I had a normal 2 car garage to work in, I would roll the car back a ways while removing the engine, then push it back in the shop when I'm done.

I think I would remove the engine and transmission together, and struggle with it out in the open

 

it's winter here, but not too cold yet, I can roll it back about 3 feet with the door open, I have a bit of a grade beyond the threshold though so I can't go farther. So that would give me 6 feet maybe...

 

With the engine stuck, unbolting the torque converter will be a problem. Removing the engine alone woud normaly be the ideal path to fallow, but that may not be a option for you. Seperatting the two may be easier after there out of the car.

 

Converter is connected to the crank with 8 nutted studs....

 

Sound like you’re going to have to un-stick the motor. Get it out, build a contraption to hold the motor

 

Is the garage wide enough to turn the car at an angle to pull the motor? Those dollies that you put under wheels can really help in situations like this, or you can jack up one end of the car on a good size floor jack and move it side ways. Spend some time figuring out how to get the whole thing out, you can probably find a way.

 

This is true, but with a stuck engine it is nearly impossible to get at the top four or five nuts. Very creative wrench heating, bending, grinding and welding on extensions to said wrenches can work, but you almost need to have one version of bent wrench per nut.



Removing the engine and trans as a unit will make things much easier.

BUT, if you remove the four bolts holding the transmission to the bellhousing, you can slide the engine forward to disengage from the torque converter (see image below). The guide studs the manual mentions are basically long bolts with the heads cut off and a screwdriver slot cut into the end. Remove the bottom two bolts and install these studs, then remove the top two bolts. Lift the engine so that you have enough clearance at the front to slide it forward five or six inches (far enough to disengage the transmission splines from the torque converter) then support the transmission from below at this height. You should now be able to slide the engine forward enough to remove it.

However, you still have the issue of getting the torque converter removed from the crank flange.

In the one photo it doesn't appear that there is much rust in the cylinders, but it's hard to tell. How much time have you spent trying to unstick the engine? It makes the whole process a LOT easier.

The Chrysler engineers never gave any thought to what hot rodders might be faced with 70 years in the future, with stuck engines.

 

Thanks everyone for the replies.
I have been trying to unstick it for 7 weeks. I now have about 20 degrees of rotation, 6 of the 8 move, but 7 and 4 are at BDC (at the dwell point) and don't move at all. I have put the camera into the case and see the crank and rods moving back and forth (cam moves, lifters, distributor etc) but those pistons aren't moving.

The car was off the road since '64, in various storage conditions until last month. In 2021 while moving it from one place to another I pulled the plugs and filled the holes with ATF. When I got the car finally here, that ATF was still sitting partially in 7 and 4. Camera showed some corrosion in 7, Intake valve open on that hole.

Long story short over the past 7 weeks and disassembly down to the what you see here. I have used most of the usual concoctions of break loose juice: ATF/ MMO mix, ATF/Acetone/MMO, PB Blaster full strength, Vinegar. I have used a steel pipe and a BFH to try to shock them free, I have left it for days with some serious tension on a ratchet strap. I used a chain wrench on the front pulley (and trashed the pulley in the process). Lots of rocking it back and forth with the 20 degrees... Bottom line is 4 and 7 aren't moving at all, and I decided I would be doing it no favors by further medieval endeavors and should pull it out and do it right.

I don't know what condition it was in when it was laid up in 64. The story was it was running and parked for a steering issue, the radiator was removed when I got to it in 2000, so I assumed it was drained.... When I took the heads off I had coolant/water coming out... I don't know exactly how much anti-freeze capacity lasts 60 years, but at that point I thought we might have some block damage, and my brain is picturing the bottom of the bores being ice compressed enough to grip those pistons. or really anything... Which brings me to this query.

I do have the wheel dollies to angle the car, and that has been one thought, and thanks for the suggestion/ I can roll the car back so the back wheels are at the edge of the apron, which will give me another 3 feet ish, which might be enough to pull both, but Murphy is lurking, and I can foresee some complication where the powertrain will be half out, the ass end of the car will be hanging over the alley, and I won't get my door closed until April haha.

 

I can get the engine and trans out of my Vette over the side in about as much room as you’ve got, and that’s with wings and rad in place. I do use a leveller to tilt it, you need to make sure you’ve got enough room over head for that though. I also remove one wheel and have an axle stand about under the a pillar.

 

Ebbsspeed is spot on with
BUT, if you remove the four bolts holding the transmission to the bellhousing, you can slide the engine forward to disengage from the torque converter (see image below). The guide studs the manual mentions are basically long bolts with the heads cut off and a screwdriver slot cut into the end. Remove the bottom two bolts and install these studs, then remove the top two bolts. Lift the engine so that you have enough clearance at the front to slide it forward five or six inches (far enough to disengage the transmission splines from the torque converter) then support the transmission from below at this height. You should now be able to slide the engine forward enough to remove it.
The bell housing and fluid coupler will be a challenge but certainly easier out of the car. You will add to your vocabulary.

 

I have a leveler, and yes I was going to pull the wheel just as you described. I might pull the back bumper off to give me an extra foot at the back haha. I have 12 foot walls so no height restriction here.

 

I'm leaning to do it this way. When doing the initial lift before disengage, should I loosen or remove the trans crossmember hardware?

 

Might get this deleted as it’s an OT car but you can see how much space there’s at the front here.

 

Allow me to kindly yet strongly suggest that if there's a dangerous part, any chance of you getting squished, especially since you're working in close quarters, that you have somebody, anybody there with you who can help if there's a mishap. Good luck, have fun. I have a '53 Newport. 440 on the stand.

 

Always good advice, thanks. I hate being under a car, getting old makes it worse I was going to put a 4 post lift in, but thought I'd need it going under it's own power first... cart/ horse dillemas.

 

Interesting. it gives good perspective. love the paneling in the shop!

 

Can you flip the beast (car) around?

 

My shop is almost square, a foot wider than deep inside: 20x21, and the side from where I have taken the photo I have a work bench and cabinets which makes it about 20x17 in workable area. If I go nose out I have a significant grade on the apron to the garage, drops about 6 inches over 4 feet to the alley. I don't think I'd be comfortable swinging 1000 lb off the crane out there.

 

...the engine does not weigh 1k even when complete... block assembly with fluid coupler maybe 450lbs....
If you remove the trans crossmember there will be nothing to support the trans when the engine is gone. You should have enough room to move the block assembly forward to clear the input shaft. Does your cherry picker have castors on all 4 corners?

 

Yup that would be bad

 

yeah I was doing the math in the back of my mind, shop manual has full assembly at just under 1k, having removed manifolds, heads, generator, probably down to 650- 700 ish with the trans attached. 450 if the trans stays in the car.

Picker has fixed wheels at the end, castors at the handle.

 

One place we built stock cars was in an old 2 car garage, it was a tad on the tight side but a little deeper than most garages. For serious work where we needed access all around the car, we jockeyed the car around on a floor jack to angle it. It was the answer at the time.

Can you borrow another garage or find a level place outside to crane it out?

 

Thanks for the replies everyone... I think I am going to pull the two together. I put the car up on the dollies for maneuvering, it's not too cold out, around -5c (23f) so if I get it up enough and get stuck I will open the door and roll it back some, I think I have about 4 feet from the rear wheel to the door opening, plus I measured 44 inches from the front pully to the front wall. With no height restriction I think I should be able to angle it out with the door closed. Worst case scenario I Lower it back into the car and start over haha.

Spent a couple hours discoing stuff under the car, brake/ neutral wiring, hand brake, lever linkage, broke free the drive shaft 4 nuts and the crossmember nuts. I have to get the speedo cable off and throttle linkages, fuel line/pump, hook up the chain and pull the front mounts and I think I'll be good... I'll let you know how it goes.

 

Good plan to pull them both, makes it a lot easier to put it all back together. Getting the transmission to engage in the torque converter can be a real circus when you have the engine hanging off a crane when you're trying to re-install the engine.

 

Got it out. Thanks again to all.
Didn't need to open the door. I Set the picker in at about a 45 degree angle, plucked it up and out. With the front clip off it was actually pretty smooth. I'd say the hardest part was cracking off the 70 year old nuts from the drive shaft and the rear crossmember.

So now the real fun begins

Should I pull the trans off the bell housing first, or pull it off with the bell housing?

TIA

 

I have a pretty much the same situation. If I ever get around to trying to do anything with it, I plan on taking the tranny off the T. C., then putting the engine on its side, removing the oil pan. Take off as many of the nuts as I can, then take off the rod caps to turn the crank to get to the rest of them. Took apart a stuck 331 once, turned out the cam was stuck solid.

 

At some point you will need to remove the trans so do it first. The fluid coupler will need to come out and it will be a pita if the crank dose not move. Get yourself a very long 12pt 5/8" box end wrench. Some of the top nuts will only turn one point at a time. For what it is worth, I have never found these nuts/studs to be rusty.

 

That stands true for most any 50's car with an automatic in it. If the engine is locked up there is no easy way to get them apart.

 

No matter what you do, there is going to be a mess to clean up.