Projects 1941 Packard 120 - Engine swap

I'm the new owner of this Packard. It's missing a ton of stuff and far from original, so please don't think I am molesting a clean, original car. I just want to get it on the road as a rat rod.

The engine was froze when I got it, but I freed it up and got it to run off starter fluid. I'm tempted to clean up and do a basic rebuild of it, but I'm not a big fan of the current manual transmission and there is zero aftermarket support for this early overdrive unit. I don't have all the electronics for overdrive, plus I will run 12 volts. Long story short, I don't want to use the transmission. There are also no adapter plates to adapt the 282 to a GM trans.

Anyways, I'm considering an engine swap to a Chevy small/big block, LS, or even a Ford small/big block. I would probably use a crate engine/transmission to keep things simple. As you can see, I'm pretty open minded at this point. I'm thinking an SBC mated to a TH350/400/700R4 would probably be the simplest and most cost effective of my options. An overdrive transmission would be ideal, as the rear end is geared pretty steep (unless I try to fab in a Ford 9"...).

I know plenty of people have done this swap before, but there isn't much info online regarding it. As you might imagine, folks on the Packard forums aren't real supportive of these kind of endeavors. Unfortunately, I don't have any engines/transmissions laying around at the moment that I can use to test fitment. There is plenty of room between the frame rails and also for the length. The driveshaft has to go through the frame, so the engine/trans would have to be aligned really well at just the right height. Not sure how well an auto trans will clear the firewall...but that can be dealt with I suppose. I think I would use a universal crossmember kit like this for the engine mounts: https://www.amazon.com/Small-Block-Chevy-Engine-Crossmember/dp/B07JFJV86B
Unless someone can suggest something better.

I'm mainly concerned about the steering box being the the way...as well as the whole of the steering... I'm wondering if it would be best to order a new front end from Scotts Hot Rods, as rebuilding the original front suspension/brakes will run north of $1500 easily (coil springs and shocks are not cheap for these). I plan to do power disc brakes and relocate the master cylinder, so that shouldn't be a huge issue.

I should mention, I plan to take the body off the frame next to clean and paint the frame and fix a few minor rust spots on the body.

Anyways, just some random ramblings of a madman thinking out loud. any suggestions at this phase are certainly appreciated!

 

I don’t think LS swap talk will make for a very long thread here. SBF, sans EFI , will, however.

 

Don’t use the term “rat rod”. It implies a low level of safety not permitted here. The late model crates are also off topic.

On the positive side, molesting cars is just fine here. Not long ago I had a ride in a 36 short wheelbase Packard that lived across the street from me. Allen had owned it for years, and even at that the non syncro gears required his full attention on a shift. Don’t know if a 41 is the same.

Before you give up on the o/d give Mac at Van Pelt Sales a call. I don’t know if they do those, but he’d know who does. Worth a call.

Someone with expertise will chime in, but if a rebuild is out, that looks like good home for a 300 Ford six or a 292 GM six. Maybe even a 12 port GMC if you’ve got deep pockets. Be really cool, and go to beat s**t.

 

I will go carb'd regardless of the engine I choose.

 

Here is the basic info on that swap. Bolt the engine and trans together. Put some mounts them. Hang the engine in the car. Get some metal. Cut it to fit. Weld it where it touches the frame and the mounts. I have seen various engines in those cars. That is how most did it.

 

Best to do an intro and go over the rules from the Boss so you can stay in good stead with the rules. neat Packard project, inliner would look great in there. Keep us updated...
The H.A.M.B.: Rules & Guidelines | The H.A.M.B. (jalopyjournal.com)

 

Rebuild the frontend, put a 300" Ford I6 in it.

 

Although the 120 has a little more engine compartment space than the 115, the Packard steering box setup just screams for an in-line motor. The 292 or 300 already mentioned would be a good fit. Both motors have good torque to run an overdrive tranny and cruising rear axle.

 

I just like the idea of a Chevy small block for the aftermarket availability. I talked to Scott's Hot Rods. About $4k plus delivery and tax for an independent front suspension. Heidts would probably be about $1k or so less.

Maybe for now I'll just look for a junkyard small block and 700r4 trans I can hang over the frame rails to get an idea of how it might fit.

 

Pics of the whole car, I wanna see some packard

 

Looks about 100X better in photos than up close in person. Someone did a quick paint job, redid some chrome work, put on new center caps and white walls to make it look pretty and then it was sold a couple times with it never made running/driving mechanically...but it's more or less lipstick on a pig. They started the interior work, but a lot of parts are missing and some pretty shoddy craftsmanship (drywall screws here and there, etc..)

 

Hole Lee crap, nice!

 

Desire for sbc notwithstanding, Unless that mill n trans was junk, I'd fix it n run it. Can be hopped up, but you'll be proudly making some of it. Damn-good bragging rights. As mentioned before, either the ford300 or gmc292 would make an excellent mill, can be hoppedup easily. All 3 will take blowers/turbos, & the torque is actually what you want(*need*!) to get that critter moving nicely. & those mills will create some interest, sbc won't.
I'd also rebuild the front end, parts are avail & cheaper than a irs-weld-on-kit. Adding hi-quality shocks(maybe in a slightly different location than oem, better swaybars, & *I'd* add disc brakes(cause I like them better than drums) et-al; will give you a very good ride + handling. NO, you won't keep up w/a new mid-engine vette.

The aftermarket mm2-type front suspensions that are adapted to early cars, are not done correctly, esp the top A-arm inclination. I'd look at the Scotts, or the others of the type for late model 60's/70's stuff - but none of that is discussed here - for good reason.

@Highlander can give you the best particulars on packards - maybe he'll show up n help? He know his stuff. Listen...

Oh, one other thing: rat-rods are rolling shit-shows, created to inspire shock at what some fool has done to the car, creating a "look how dangerous this shit-fest is to the driver, passenger & esp to anyone else on the road, & I'm driving it!". There's every reason in the world to avoid them like yesterdays' Plague. However, building & driving an unfinished rod, a beater(everyday driver that doesn't have cubic-coin lavished on its' interior/exterior), or a reacher; does belong in the desirable category. Hope you're meaning those definitions instead of rr.
Marcus...

 

Just my observation here, but that engine "bay" (why the fuck is it called a "bay" anyway?) is deep, and with the current steering setup it's kind of narrow. My point is that a SBC is going to be quite a reach to service/tune, etc. A 292ci Chev or 300ci Ford would be much more user friendly and fit like a glove. A decent automatic trans can be mated to either of them.
That car is not light and will take some torque to get rolling..... I'd suggest an inline.
YOMV

 

Speed Gems has them.

https://transmissionadapters.com/pr...59-straight-8-to-chevy-automatic-transmission

 

Jefferson, it looks like you have a better head start above what I’m working with! I’ll be following your posts and see where this thread leads. What neck of the woods are you located in? I too have thought about the sbc and Turbo tranny. My estimates are that a GM rear end from a’70s Camaro, Nova, or Chevelle should work with minimal effort. Keep us posted with lots of pics.

 

That's for the 288-327-359. Will not fit the 282.

 

Good to know on the rear end! I was not aware of that. I'm in the midwest.

I know people keep suggesting an inline Ford engine... and I am somewhat still open to that, but I really like the idea of using an SBC where the aftermarket options are second to none.

 

The 292 Chevy uses the SBC bellhousing bolt pattern and a lot of SBC parts fit. You could always go that route and if not happy with the results you can use the same tranny. I am putting a 292 in one of my Buicks.

 

lack of memory, i did find a thread about 2 months ago about changing to new style trans. dig around

 

You could ask here:
https://www.whodoyou.com/biz/1525949/bendtsens-transmission-center-ham-lake-mn
If the current packard S8 adaptor doesn't fit the 282, he probably would make one that does, should be similar. When he started out making various adaptors, he was after all kinds of old engines to model from. Maybe never got one to model. I'd guess you can't be the only guy that could use one.
Marcus...

 

I'll send them a message

 

speaking only for myself. I'd like to see you get that thing running and driving as a stock car with the stock transmission. Yes... it may be a a 20-ft looker but it's cool.

 

You keep mentioning SBC because of parts availability. Both the Ford 300 and the GM 292 have plenty of parts availability, the Ford is little more common and used up into the 90s even. Ford 300 uses the same bellhousing pattern as the SBF Windsor family, so lot of good modern OD transmission choices. The GM 292 has same bellhousing pattern as the SBC and BBC, so again lot of good modern OD transmission choices. Either 300 or 292 can be found cheap, and built up to provide plenty of power to move that car. Both were used in trucks, so your car is going to be lighter than those. Add in a bit of performance upgrades and you have no problem with power. No matter what you will have probably double the power of original engine had. Plus inline 6 is whole lot easier to swap in and keep your steering. No need to put a different front susp in for a cruiser. Your car already has independent front, albeit the old knee action design. Cut a coil or two and simple lowering as long as you don't want extreme.

 

Ford 300. Carburetor and header.

Whatever automatic that is already attached to it.

Keep it simple.

 

I just sold n delivered a 41 160 sedan Friday. There's way more Packard support than most think. They were closer to heirloom status than just transportation so high miles and parts are not Ford or Chevy easy but easier than a lot of others. Packard blocks are more like cast steel, never require hardened seats, and all the basic rebuild stuff is a phone call or email away. Power? How much you want? Durability? Current condition, regardless of its disrespected fluff, speaks volumes. AND you have a coveted OD. The only thing needed to set the front suspension for spirited driving is stiffer shocks and a bigger sway bar. The rear ain't going nowhere. I'm pretty sure the 120 also had the damped panhard bar too. Does it? How's your gas tank? They're unobtanium, I modified a 61 Olds wagon tank which is the same dimensions and filler location. If yours is good, hooray for you.
What would I do? Rebuild the motor, use the O/D, change the center section to the non-O/D 3.90 ratio, and end up with a hybrid-esque hot rod that appeals to Packard loyalists as well as the rest of the kool car world. It'll cruise at 65-70 all day, have enough grunt to be fun, and in the long run be easier to service over time. I don't think you have the room for the bigger engines, but if an automatic is the demand then a 288 is the no-brainer since you can get adapters for them, plus they're improved. As far as room, yeah, the steering box looks in the way, but does the spectre of laying down in there to service a V8 seem fun? Those "hood sides" are not movable, or removeable. 41 is in my top 5 favorite year Packards. There's a lotta blessings in this one.

 

Wikipedia suggests it should be synchronized. Probalt 2nd and 3rd.
"In 1939, the company introduced a fifth, transverse shock absorber on the 120.[13] It also offered Packard's Unimesh three-speed synchromesh transmission, [14]"

 

Yeah I didn't bother to rehash that they were synchro from the early 30s. If ya have a grinder it's probably fucked somewhere. BTW, that trans in that car is very tough. Maybe not solid lifter bang shift SBC tough, but durable as all get out.

 

Yea, I hear where you are coming from. I think running an 8Cyl engine is going to make the car worth when/if the time comes to sell. versus a Ford or Chevy straight 6. Even though, those straight 6 engines would work totally fine in this and make plenty of power. I also understand, anything other than stock in one of these is hurting the value. So, while the value of the car when it's done isn't the most important factor, it's still something I'm taking into consideration at least to a small degree. Of course, the 6 cyl swap will probably cost less, so it may all more or less end up as a wash.

If I can adapt an auto transmission to the factory 8 cylinder, then it would be a no brainer to keep the original engine. Then, I just gotta decide if I want to build a custom header/intake.

 

I appreciate all your suggestions! Yes, a 288 engine can fit fairly easily from what I understand Packard issued TSBs on how to make them fit. So, that's not a bad idea... If anyone has a 288, 327, 359 laying around, let me know.

From what I understand, I can't modify my OD solenoid to function with a simple toggle switch. It requires power to move the pushrod, and power to hold it. This is unlike the later units that only needed power to move the pushrod. How long would that survive on 12 volts? Probably not very long I would guess.. I'm missing the relay and other parts needed to make it work properly, and I don't care to try to rebuild and piece together the system back to 6 volts. Not going to happen.