Technical Extending a 32 Ford Frame

Ya know I bet @IronTrap would have an idea on clearing a blown caddy in a 32 he’s got caddy’s blowers and 32’s on hand…

 

So, if I understand correctly, Brizio moved the firewall back, extended the feet and mounted the body in the stock location?
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/img_22_std-jpg.5927067/

 

With A s & 32s The Roaster , truck
& 5w ,
Do not know about 32 3 window , the 32 3 w I was in was chopped channeled & sectioned..
( ( cramped & @ time I was 19))
A 2 inch recessed in fire wall especially if you take out the feet pocket it get cramped when your 5:11 & taller , pedals & seat need to be well thought out for long rides 100 miles plus as you get older ,

 

But realistically the entire firewall doesn’t need moved. If a naturally aspirated caddy fits with minimal tweaking then pushing it back for a few more inches of clearance if it even needs it likely results in a divot/ blister for the p***enger head and maybe the distributor. Pretty minor and no effect on foot room

 

Ah I had completely missed that part of the equation my bad.

 

I plan to use hanging pedals and an A/C. I'll work it out when I get there, but thinking about a support (rec tube) behind the firewall that holds the pedals and don't want to take room away from that area. Still not sure what kind of Master Cylinders, probably firewall mounted. I also like the looks of a stock firewall.....seems more natural. Maybe its just one of my idiosyncrasies, but I'm hoping not to get into moving or cutting the firewall.

@Anthony myric touched on something that I was thinking about earlier today when he talked about the drivers side head being farther rearward than the Chevy. Its very close to the same location as the bellhousing mounting surface.
That will control how far back the engine can set. On the Chevy though, it has a rear distributor that I won't have to contend with.




As you can see from the diagram, with a Chevy the limiting factor ar the rear is the distributorwhich is basically at the same location as the bellhousing face. So if I'm thinking correctly, I should gain maybe 1/2 " or at least lose nothing to the Chevy for the starting point.

Here is a picture of the Cad drivers side relation to the bellhousing surface. To me bellhousing surface location doesn't matter, its what surface or thing will hit the firewall first.....then measure forward from that.



So now its a matter of modifying the front of the engine pulleys to see if I can shave any length off it.

Appreciate all this help guys...........merry Christmas!

 

Op is your coupe a 3w or 5w ? stock floor or channeled ?

Even on chev sb bb the distributor is no big deal , Radiator clearance with a roots 6:71 & lager it's the drive , block , head , bell of transmission itself on both that cuts into inside space ,
Master on firewall aahhh !!!
I would not , if you hang your pedals ,
Xtra support needed , from firewall & not weld brackets, bolt incase you want to remove body not firewall,
When it comes to master cylinder floor mount ,it does not have to be right @ between pedals & seat , movie it back rearward 12 to 24 inches , just a longer rod ,

Best to get your blower drive mocked up & start from there be for making engine mounts , set your radator in stock location , get your clearances even if you decide to stretch the frame and work backwards , with out fire wall then go from there ,,, I did a straight 6 in 5w
& worked from radator backwards ,
Im trying to figure out now how to get a 4 speed Lenco in a 32 5w with stock seat

 

That makes since, one thing to take notice of is a LOT of the motors are mounted a lot lower than you think. I think most if not all of your modifications should fall far below your hanging pedals and etc.

 

Wrong caddy but it’s in a 32. Plenty of firewall above.


Like anything you’ll have to just get it all in hand snd mock it up. Steering is a big factor with these fast motors as well.

 

Lou is running a chevy and it might be mounted a little higher up but it’s still a blower in a 32, lots and lots of upper firewall.

I think the key would be to move the areas that are actually in the way. With a stock slanted toe board I think you could have the bell housing eat into the firewall to tie board transition a few inches before it ever became noticeable

looking for a comparison looks like on the chart of engine size both a flathead ford and a 500 inch caddy are both 30” at the A measurement. That’s wild

 

OK, this is apples to oranges but I’ll put some numbers out there anyway. I have a channeled ‘32 5W, blown 350 and a T-10. The engine is mounted low, the header bolts are 5” above the frame rails and the T-10 is just below the top of the rails. Radiator is in the stock position and with a 2” Gilmer drive mounted on a Fluidamper and two v-belt pulleys I have about 1 1/4” between the crank pulley and the u-bolts. When I bought the car as a roller the firewall was trashed so I used the original flange and put an 11ga flat firewall in and I have around 3/4” clearance with a Delco single point distributor. The f/w is in the stock position, it just doesn’t have the bumps and warts.
Based on the chart that @nochop posted the stock 500” Caddy is 3 1/2” longer than the SBC and a 4” (typo?) blower drive was mentioned in the original post.
Even if the blower drive was 2” the total package is 5 1/2” longer than a blown SBC.
Not my build but if it was I would be looking at removing the package tray, pedals on the floor and modifying the firewall but even then I think you will have one carburetor at least part way under the cowl if it even fits, that Caddy is taller than the small block too. I get it, a stock appearing f/w is a big part of the ‘32 vibe but IDK if it can be pulled off. One last thing and I’ve said this many times, test fit, measure, think about radiator and steering and once you formulate a plan stick to it.

 

Stick the rad in the back. Problem solved

 

32 is 3 Window with stock floor but I will reform around the bellhousing and trans tunnel if needed. The bellhousing is an aftermarket unit that is a little more compact than an OEM BOP housing. The trans will be a Tremec 6 speed. I figure I'll have to do some modification to the floor, but it won't be channeled .......just chopped.

I don't care for thru the floor pedals but as this evolves, I will if I need to. One thing....eerrr 2 things I have never cared for are firewalls that are perfectly smooth or firewalls that have a big recess to surround the back of the engine.
Thats just my taste in things. Again, engine position may dictate that I don't mount the master cylinders on the firewall, but for now thats my plan.

The idea I have in my head is to put a piece of formed rectangular tubing behind the firewall to hand the pedals from. It may be attached to the firewall as well as the legs supporting it. By that I mean if there is room near the firewall "feet", I may weld them to the firewall/feet so it stays with the firewall. Then I should be able to remove the body if ever needed. Haven't completely investigated the actual parts yet tho..........

Boogieman Intake for Cad


Note: This is not my engine and intake, but the one I have is just like it.

Yes I agree with you there.

Here is a picture of a stock Cad pulley set up. Room for improvement I hope.



Being a 500 Cad, there aren't any blower manifolds that I'm aware of. I have a used 6-71 GMC and a new BDS 8-71 blower. I bought a manifold from CadCo which has an open plenum chamber. I plan to machine the top down some and reduce the height, then machine a custom adapter plate to mount the blower. Since the position of the blower appears to offer room for me to adjust it to work with whatever pulley setup I can come up with, I'm trying to work out the pulley set up and go from there.

Yes, there will be a lot of moching up. I plan to bolt the firewall to the frame and temporaily check engine mounting. I'll probably make some support brackets that bolt to the engine kinda like feet, no real mounts. Then I can set the engine in place close to the firewall and see where the radiator needs to be, and if lengthening may be needed.

Appreciate your help and suggestions, they make me think and hopefully not mess this up. Nothing permanent will be done till I can see it first hand.

 

Problem solved!

 

After looking at the chart again, a BB Chevy is 1/2" longer and the early Hemis are 2" longer.

 

As I mentioned, the actual OAL of my engine and blower drive is still unknown, but I'm working to get there. May go with a V belt (which I like better). I also may think about recessing the firewall but not cutting it. Need to look more closely at how the body slips onto the firewall. I have a feeling that making this work will consist of gaining a little space in multiple places rather than one mod that produces all the room I need. Appreciate your input, and Merry Christmas.

 

That’s exactly how I got the stude in my model A. A 1/4 inch here an inch there.

in the end only people who know what a stock firewall looks like will even notice half of what I changed most will glance and not even realize

 

I get it, no OBVIOUS mods. The 32 is iconic and most can see these changes. If it's a fight for an inch here and an inch there, a band of metal around the outside edge to recess it a little may mean impossible is now possible.
https://www.youtube.com y6s2tL7qyPA

Saw a pro build here that did a plate at the motor mounts, then a chunk of round pipe horizontal out on each side to set on the frame. Allowed fore/aft movement, up/down with shims (pipe high), and tilt to set driveline angle. Neat! He used a Hurst front mount later, but you could set up location, then block up the engine to fab mounts too. Model A so the frame is flat, but might work for you.
60's Era Street/Strip Model A Coupe

 

Another way I haven't seen much of to set up heights is a set of screw jacks.
A bar across the front and rear of the engine or engine/trans that rest on these will allow fine adjustment.You could even catch the pan rails. Not great for fore/aft or side-to-side, but if you are close it beats blocks of wood and a hoist.
https://www.campingworld.com/camco-aluminum-jack-stands-set-of-4-4205.html?

 

This thread has a 32 firewall adapted for BBC. See the last page, beginning at December 15.
With the engine installed, you can hardly see the mods on the inside or outside of the firewall (except for the distributor pocket).
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/1932-ford-5-window.1302980/#post-15088836

 

Man that bbc in a 32 is a great reference. I spent a good half hour staring at my firewall last night planning cuts.

So much of the interference is in that flat area that reads as vertical but really comes farther forward the lower the panel goes.

flatting it out while keeping the edges where there is structure behind it and making it not obvious that you’ve cut it is really a delicate balance and dance. But there’s inches of space available if done right

 

(Pic from here)

I know this thread started about stretching the frame to make a engine fit, Caddy 500 with blower ,a lot going on front of engine ,you will be back in firewall pretty good... But I feel you need to fit if you plain to drive more then across town ,
If you drove/drive a 32, T,R,5w
Your 5:11 to about 6:2 ,
shoe size 11-14 with stock
fire wall its Comfortable,
Im sure 3 w same
but wants you cut into the foot pocket or @ kick out straight like the top, its not comfortable for more then short drives ,
Seat style & placement needs addressed with thought,
Im usually driving afew hours @ a time.
My self been in many 32 , with stock fire walls , Stock & cut enough for heads Driver side,(Ford)
Straight fire walls , *****in set back witch was the worse ...

 

I think the 3 window has room to move the seats back to keep foot room, but will have to check that for sure. Good point tho, and I will check it out.

Neat pic of the mount with the pipe for easy adjustment. I came up with an idea years ago that works well on later cars with the engine surrounded by fenders that are higher. I'll post some pics.
On a 32 it will be easier, and I have an overhead crane instead of the pictured "cherry picker".....but this works well for anyone wanting to swap an engine.

An engine tilter is used and its "mounted sideways" instead of the "normal front to rear" orientation. The reason for that is that it allows the engine to be rotated for side to side leveling of the valve covers.

Initially a junk cobbled up mount is made that will set on the frame to hold the transmission mount. Make it deeper so the trans sets too low..........then it can be shimmed up to find best location and later you can make a finished mount thats right. Naturally you want it to be centered in the frame rails and able to slide forward and backward easily. Maybe ends which just set on top of the frame rail.

This trans mount serves as a pivot point for getting the engine centered as well. With the engine tilter mounted in the sideways location the engine pivots on the trans mount as the cherry picker is also slid in from the side instead of the front.

Simply push/pull the cherry picker to center the engine and crank the handle to level the engine side to side. Then raising or lowering the whole engine gives you the best front to rear engine angle.

All three axis are movable this way, no need to wedge things or shim things and have them shift later on. When the engine is where someone wants it, I make a small cradle to bolt to the front of the engine and tack it to the frame. Then the engine and trans are supported exactly where you want it, and the engine mounts are exposed so that frame adapters can be crafted that fit correctly. Here are some old pics. Even easier with a 32...........






This makes it really easy to set an engine just where you want it and then its hanging there supported by the trans mount and the temporary cradle while you make the permanent mounts.