Technical Welding help/grade

The liners will often get damaged right at the handle end where you grip the lead. That area is often the place it gets flexed too much, the most often. Also plan on replacing the tip, if the wire balls up at the rollers, the wire feed stopped movement has most likely damaged the tip. I have replace more tips then I have ever replaced liners. When you replace the tips, run the wire out of the lead about 1 1/2" then slide the tip over the wire and screw it in place, then cut the excess wire off. I do this every time I replace a roll of wire as well.

Looking at your pictures, the metal appears to be clean enough. unless the metal has a coating on it (which needs to be removed if present), the metal itself is not likely your issue. There was also a comment about welding the different gauges of metal between 16 and 18/19, that minimal difference in the gauges of the metal is also not your issue. Get the welder set up so the wire feeds smoothly and do lots of practice, you will either get it, or you probably won't ever get it.

Also, I sure hope you do not intend to try to fill the gap below the two sideways tacks without some kind of a backer. I have lots of years welding sheet metal, I would not attempt that one without a backer, then it would still be border line.

I have done a lot of automotive floor pans over the years. Floor pans are a great place to learn welding skills, because they are nearly always covered and out of sight. That said, very few floor board welds I have done were ever butt welded. Even the auto factories overlapped floor joints.

As far as floor board welding was concerned, if the "new floor pan" was joined at a factory joint, I drilled the holes and did the plug welds. If the weld was where a sheet of factory metal was cut, I would flange the original pan and weld the new pan over the top of the flange and the new pan edge was fully welded (move around as it is done), then all the seams were seam sealed above the floors.

I often welded floor pans in snow plow trucks in the rust belt. In 25 years of doing it, anytime the floor pans needed to be replaced a 2nd (or 3rd) time, it was always because the new pan rotted out. The flanged weld areas were never bad. I would cut the flange area off and add a doubled flanged filler between the new pan and the original floor. Most floor pans rot out from water sitting on top of them, not from under the vehicle. The few that rotted from the bottom spent much time sitting in water, and most of them needed complete floor pan and structural support replacement.

The old jute backing the car companies put under carpet for insulation can hold water for 2 weeks after first getting wet, and that wet jute usually sat against unprotected steel.

 

Not quite getting this sentence ^^^^^^^^^^^

I had a perplexing issue with the Millermatic 200 I bought in the late eighties.
The welding shop initially set it up with .030 wire, at a later time I needed to do some light sheetmetal work so changed over to .023, from the get go it would pinch the fine wire between the rows of wire if too tight, when loosened it would do nothing but ratnest, got tired of fighting it so I made a plastic flap from an old number panel mounted on a pivot mounted over the spool that just rested on the wire between the spools' side flanges, this allowed a looser spool tension which fixed the problem.

 

Not clear to me what's being said the problem is. When feeding the wire you need to manually get it into the liner, it won't find the hole by itself. Sound familiar? Then you can run it through but, importantly, with the tip removed as, again, the wire won't find the hole in the tip by itself.

Chris

 

Pull the tip off and pull the trigger, does the wire feed fine then ?

Sounds to me like your hitting the tip at the end of the gun.

....

 

The wire feeds into the sleeve fine (with the rollers) after I run about 3" into it. It will feed just fine and then right at the gun is when it will rats nest. The tip is off when I do this and the wire never comes out. So tomorrow i will take it out and clean it up. But as was mention before, I don't use it that often so the wire might be collecting dust or spot rusting. I may make up some sort of felt thingy to keep the dust out of the liner.

 

You may get by blowing out the liner, but I'm betting you need to replace the liner. Blow it out from the tip end towards the rollers, it will clean up faster that direction. While you are at it, blow out the entire area around the wire spool, and blow out the welder itself back through the cooling fan. Make sure the garage door is open, you will create a large dust cloud!
I blow out my liner every time I put on a new roll of wire.
Miller used to have round felt pieces with a spring clip to keep the dust out of the liner, you could add a few drops of oil to help lube the rollers as well, but I usually tie a short piece of cotton rag around the wire. I replace that with every roll of wire as well.

 

There is some sort of obstruction in the area of the gun handle/gooseneck. Probably the liner. It may be kinked or broken. You are going to have to take it apart. Since you are going that far, just replace the liner..

 

No disrespect meant,but,when you say the tip is “off”, are you referring to the outer sleeve?
The tip is the little copper tube that screws into the middle that the wire comes through,,,
If that is still in place the wire won’t find it’s way out.
Sorry, but I don’t know how much you know about the handpiece.

 

Good advice above. There's a reason they sell the tips in 5 packs, keep some on hand and its always the simplest and easiest thing to change first. Mine always seemed to need one at night or on the weekend when every welding store was closed.
Not sure how your gun is made, but while you have the tip off, clean the cup good and spray it good with anti-splatter.
That little pliers looking tool they sell comes in handy. Use the tip to give a rough clean of the cup with the tip still on if you get build up of splatter. The little hole fits the tips, the big hole fits the cup. If you are making a lot of tacks that you want to be uniform and neat get in the habit of cutting the ball off the end of the wire if its too big and leaving about an 1/8 " stickout each time. You can bend a thick piece of tig rod into and "Z" and attach it to the cup, where you would slide the wire up to the previous tack before you pull the trigger and you will get uniform spacing. After you get the hang of watching what's happening, you will learn when to release the trigger so that the little ball .is not left on the end. Thats where the practice comes in. Good Luck.

 

When Mig welding thin sheetmetal, I suggest you use .023 diameter wire. It will birdnest much easier than the .032 wire does. If you or someone put .023 wire in the machine without changing to an .023 liner, .023 rollers, and a .023 tip........you will probably get the birdnest. .023 is not tolerant of much resistance when feeding. Your tip could be closing the hole slightly and resisting. Replace it, or if you don't have a spare handy, put it in a drill to spin it and touch it against a belt sander. Move it in an arc as you lightly touch it to the belt sander and it will look like new. They also sell small cans of lube made for Mig welders and a little fiber thingy. You put the fiber thingy on the wire and squirt the special oil on it, and as the wire feeds, it gets lubed.

www.amazon.com/Combo-Weld-Aid-Lubricant-007040-007060/dp/B0CLS7C56N/ref=sr_1_7?adgrpid=1330409633560976&hvadid=83150841276094&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=88414&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvtargid=kwd-83150944412555%3Aloc-190&hydadcr=8457_13498609&keywords=mig+welder+wire+lube&qid=1706551003&sr=8-7

 

75% of my welding problems are caused by me................

 

And the other 25% is dirty material.

 

Well I read through most of this real quick, but that metal he is welding is clean! I hope everything I weld is that clean! Second rough grinding is no problem, the weld will melt it, no problem!
Also a gap is desirable to get a good weld, but you can get a weld with no gap and not get that humped up stuff.
Like mentioned, a little more heat, a little less feed, maybe a tad faster travel, and change the angle of the gun.
Also are you using CO2? Or tri gas?




Bones

 

Just curious, have you tried to but weld them, or started with a gap and sticking to it?

I’ve never tried to weld a gap in sheet metal.
Why did you choose that approach?

 

Personally I try to avoid any gap when welding sheetmetal. I can see having a small slit where a cut off wheel was used to trim a panel to fit. I saw somewhere that tilting the grinder/cut off wheel on an angle when trying to match a patch panel to a body, would make the two pieces come together flatly with no gap. Never tried it myself, but it might work.

 

Try Welding Tips & Tricks web site or Arc Zone. There are numerous tutorials on the web some great.

 

gap-no gap depends on your heat and technique you have become accustomed to and what works best with your equipment.

 

I sold an oxy - acetylene set up and the buyer asked if I was a welder... I told him "well.. I have a welder"

 

I think you’re referring to Fitzees “ Cut and Butt”. It’s on YouTube...

 

Another update. First the welding wire would rats nest in the machine due to a bad sleeve-no problem I will go get another one right-nope. Found out my welder that was made in 83 uses a European cable/gun set up-not able to get one in the US. So now I am looking at a new welder $$$$ for a hobbyist planning on a London vacation in a month. So go to another store and they sell a welder that uses the same cable/gun set up and it worked!!!! Start my test zaps again and after a few zaps nothing. I checked all of the usual suspect connections and said I think it may have died. Or it needs a repair again on the inside.

So now I am looking at either a Miller 210, Lincoln 210? or an ESAB 210. Does anyone have any reviews of the three? I know Miller and Lincoln are the go to welders but what about ESAB? I get all three processes in that machine for less than one of the others. I don't mind paying for a quality but I also don't want to pay just a name.

 

hobart handler-- the 220 volt version(s)--have the 187

 

Can you post a picture of the gun and lead you can't find? Especially the connection point. You may be able to get another brand of liner and just cut the length to fit yours. Also, some people upgrade the guns and leads for better ones.

If you go the new welder route, get one that has an "autoset" feature. This lets someone who just does welding as a hobby to get pretty close on their correct setting easily.

When buying a welder, the first problem is convincing oneself to part with a decent amount of money because they don't feel they will use it that much. This is the hardest part of buying a welder. So you look to get the best buy, yet still keep it not too expensive. Now only you can make the decision to step up to the plate and spend enough money to get a decent welder.............or not.

You will see that there are several well known brands available, but what you don't notice are the subtle differences that often come with the less expensive but NAME brand. The gun and cable may be shorter and lighter duty. The rollers for the wire are smaller and less durable. It may only operate on 110 volts instead of 220. The knobs for adjusting wire speed and amps may have "steps" rather than being infinitely variable. A smaller welder doesn't come with a cart, so you have nothing to hold your bottle. A slightly larger welder comes with a cart built in and is much better. An inexperienced buyer usually won't notice these things.

I was going to suggest getting a Miller 212, as my son has one and loves it. But it appears that Miller has quit producing them and upgraded to a 235. And the price has gone up as well. I have a Miller 350P which has increased in price from about $4000 when I bought mine, to $7000 + today. I can sell mine for what I paid for it. Thats a consideration when purchasing these things. I also have an ESAB Rebel 215 that I bought just to do thin stuff like sheetmetal........because its a PITA to change the wire/rollers/liner and tip and most of us will just try to get by with .032 rather than change back and forth. I like the ESAB and their customer service was first rate. It will do thicker stuff, but I just wanted one for thin stuff. They have gone up in price quite a bit as well. Since I don't plan to sell them in my lifetime, I'll stick with them. But I have to say that I think all these companies are pricing themselves out of the hobbiest market. So if you can pony up for a decent name brand, do so and it will hold its value for many many years.

All of that said........................
I'd take a look at the Primeweld Mig 180 for $549 on Amazon. Look at customer satisfaction, and then use the customer service number to call them. Ask them what size wire and liner and tips it comes with. Do not use flux core. The point is, you want a liner/rollers/tips for .023 as well as .032. So see if they will sell /give you some if you buy their welder. They may ship you one direct instead of using Amazon, but you want to be sure they are available for your needs. They have an excellent customer service reputation. With Amazon, you can send it back if you don't like it... and they pay the shipping.
(If you are an Amazon Prime customer) If not, get Amazon prime before buying anything...it will pay for itself. Anyway, this is something you can return if not happy, so you might want to try it before dropping the big bucks.

www.amazon.com/PrimeWeld-MIG180-Welding-Machine-Voltage/dp/B09WH4NFPT/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=1L61B92MG64O0&keywords=primeweld+mig+welder&qid=1706893230&sprefix=Primeweld+mig%2Caps%2C278&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

 

Amazon has its place, not sure it's the best source for buying a welder though, especially someone with little to no experience, and, DO NOT rely on internet reviews as your "Welders Buying Guide" either.
Its best to establish a relationship with someone at a local welding supply, there's nothing better than to have an actual face to face conversation, many times the guy will actually have been a weldor.
As far as brand goes, Miller, Lincoln, and Hobart usually will have equivalent features in a given category of welders, the biggest issue has always been about the local availability of replacement parts, especially consumables, that should be one of the most important deciding factors in buying a welder.

 

I was able to get a brand new gun/cable that attached and worked with my current welder. I am not sure what is going on but it just started going 'Fzzt' and that was it. I have gas coming through, good ground and wire coming through. I will pull it off and check the electrical connection.

Thank you for the advice on buying a new welder. All three brands that I mentioned are about the same in price-well the Miller is after a rebate. I will go back down and talk to the welding store manager again about the various models. I have been burned by one welder becoming a boat anchor because there is no support for it. And the research I did had people saying that it is a good welder but when it dies you scrap it-and I will. I was hoping it would last since I don't weld all that much.

There is a guy in my club who used to build his own hot rod bodies so I am going to talk to him as well. I generally am going to just do sheet metal work and maybe, just maybe the frame on my Model A if I find a crack. But generally I am a light duty/hobbyist so nothing super fancy for me. Although TIG would be nice for small parts, the ESAB has that going for it. Just not sure if one machine can do all three processes really great or just well.

Mike

 

There are some nice inverter DC TIG machines for reasonable money. I started out gas welding sheet metal. It teaches some good things about how metal behaves. I used Mig for a short time and moved up to TIG. One thing that helped MIG welding poor fitting joints was to have a TIG filler rod in my free hand. You can cool the puddle with the filler and avoid burning holes. (more grinding though) Ditto on the copper backer bar.

 

×2 on prime weld, had their tig for over 3 or 4 yrs now and no problems whatsoever.

Best bang for your buck, plenty of YouTube video reviews too...

....

 

Most likely you've messed up connecting the new torch to your machine. Check everything you've done. Highly unlikely that the welder has expired just after receiving a new torch, possible of course, but most unlikely.

Chris

 

I bought a used DOA plasma cutter years back. Pull the trigger, nothing.
But dry firing it with the torch to my ear, every once in awhile, I’d hear a “click”. Took the handle apart and there was a micro switch that I adjusted.
I’ve never taken apart a MIG gun apart before, but maybe something similar?

 

About those crappy welds.......IF it ain't shiny clean it just won't weld right. (forget that junk about 'burning the paint/rust /OIL out as you weld over it!! Never works!)
You're not using an extension cord on your welder are you ?? Bad idea. Make sure it is a HEAVY duty cord if so. Too small a wire will make the welder run real cold/erratic .
Aim the torch/heat slightly toward the thicker metal when welding.
Last resort.......Gob the weld on and then grind it down.
Practice ...like mentioned above.
6sally6

 

Update: ok, welder died so I went and got an esab rebel 210. Tested it out tonight and loved the performance. I am a total beginner but it at least gave me the confidence that I might produce decent welds. After some practice I will get better and I am hoping to tack in the toe board for my wagon.