Technical Whose seat belts do you use? Why?

Having used up 98% of my ability to breath , ya' never know , could be !

 

Oh great , now you want to beat us with analysis & statistics , yawn , good nite !

 

As many vintage wrecks I've come across over the years where the steering wheel was nearly on the seat(and I've lost count from how many) my statement still holds. Even on the better structured cars in a hard wreck the column will come back in a similar fashion.....even if the posted picture was a stacked deck test and exaggerated.

 

You know the majority of wrecks..... especially those with fatalities are not vintage cars. So you are comparing Toyota Camry stats to vintage chevys lol

 

So does Crow if your under their date limit and the attachments are in good shape.

 

How did you decide on what height up the b pillar to mount ?

 

Being thrown from the vehicle is being thrown from the vehicle. The gun doesn't matter, it's the projectile that hits the target.

 

Fore recertifying a harness I would weigh out the cost of shipping both ways, that could be a deterring factor for me. Also on a side note a used harness does have some value as does an expired helmet. Apparently the demolition guys like buying them up as they don't have to conform to expiry dates or SFI regulations. Something to think about.

 

I think the general idea is that the shoulder belt is supposed to pass across your shoulder, not too high so it's in your ear and not too low so that it compresses you in case of an accident. Looking at Juliano's installation instructions, there doesn't seem to be a recommendation. They show instructions for a 47-54 5-window Chevy pickup where the mounting point is way up near the top of the window, but most of their instructions for other cars and trucks show the mounting point roughly half-way up the window.

 

Except.....when in a car like my 53 Bel Air where being thrown could mean I only hit the ICU as opposed to the morgue if I'm held in place to be impaled. My example car of a Camry is a car literally designed around seat belts. Meanwhile my 53 was designed to not have them lol.

 

Drove wrecker for about 10 years 60's-70s , can't recall more than a couple souls being ejected from the vehicle & I think they were both passengers when the door latch failed . But that's a long time ago .
Oh yeah , FWIW , none of this matters much when you drive a T-bucket !

 

It can be quite lucrative in NZ due to shipping costs of SFI or FIA harnesses
I was certified to re-web belts for land transport / OSH purposes [including Heavy Ratchet Tie-downs for the trucking industry]
BUT SFI and FIA charge exorbitant fees for them to license me [whereas our Govt will license you based on their guidelines which were far more stringent than SFI and FIA]
And the $$$ was in Industry and military contracts, not Racers trying to save a buck.

Sunlight is the biggest killer of the webbing and stitching, but most Race Cars live indoors. There was quite a market for used /expired harnesses for the Off-Road / Rock Crawler crowd [which is deregulated] and Lately they are showing up in recreational Jet Boats [old "lever action" style can tolerate water]

Don't confuse "The chances of being involved in an accident" with "The chances of surviving an accident"
As we all know "Accidents only happen to other people "

26 years ago I suffered a broken sternum and a collapsed lung, from a seat belt [crossing diagonally on my chest] .
If I wasn't wearing a seatbelt these injuries would've been avoided, But I would've been dead

Racing is best described as "driving on the conservative side of having an accident"
The probability of an inent is higher, but the consequences are less.

On the street the probability is a lot less, but the consequences from them are far worse.

 

Sorry I had to cut myself off earlier as I was sitting in a waiting room and got called back so I just hit post and didn't come back to it.

Is a new car safer? Generally speaking I would say yes in almost every instance but seatbelts especially modern three-point seat belts go a long ways to making a vintage vehicle safer. Now that being said in my Ford Model A even with its Chrome steering column that I think is a knock off 1960s GM collapsible column I don't want to ever get into an accident with that car I don't think seat belts and a collapsible steering column are going to do much for my safety. It's a risk I think most of us are well aware of and that goes with all classic era cars but adding seat belts collapsible steering columns and (ugly) headrests make a vintage car just about as safe as a new car the problem is most of us don't add collapsible steering columns nobody puts those ugly headrest on their car and most people don't even want to use a lap belt so all of our cars are all death machines.

 

Now I can agree that headrests add to safety period. Can also agree many of us won't add them lol

 

I hear ya Squablow living in Wisconsin it’s a matter of when ,not if you hit a deer. A friend totaled a full size OT 4x4 3/4 ton pickup last year all the air bags went off, that deer mangled that truck, speed was 70 plus.
As far as seat belts go it’s a personal decision in my opinion. However if you’re going to install or wear seat belts I personally would install the best stuff I could afford. Jegs , Summit, Speedway etc all sell belts, I think Juliano’s would a good choice.
Dan

 

I think a discussion about this stuff is valuable here, might save a life. Hopefully it won't devolve into a mud slinging mess. Let's try to not let emotions spin this out of control.
If you've been fortunate to escape peril for many years of driving, good for you! However, you have to recognize that the skills of modern drivers has gotten significantly worse! You may have had a chance, when people were actively engaged in the act of driving, but these days God only knows what they're doing behind the wheel.
I'm a belt guy. 3 point. I've spent considerable time and effort installing 3 point modern harnesses into 4 old cars. I attempt to duplicate in geometry and exceed in mount strength that which the factories have engineered. I spend a good bit of time benchmarking and measuring stock installations. I know anything I'm doing is not proven (yet), but I feel way better about giving rides this way, especially to kids.

 

I'm mounting shoulder belts in the resurrection of the B/G Austin.
The instructions with the belts provided this diagram of the mounting points. My seat back position was too far back to use the B post so I mounted the guide below the rear window ledge on some added bracing that was within that acceptable range. In some other literature one of the requirements is that the belt from the inertial reel must be 90* to the floor.

 

Interesting, I would love someone with real engineering prowess to explain what the above diagram is trying to explain.

I just checked out their website and offerings. Not bad looking, this place might get my business.

 

I agree with this post.

To wear or to not wear a belt is a matter of personal choice, just like building your ride the way you like it. My opinion on how you should live is irreverent, just like your opinion on how I should live is irreverent.

The original post was "Whose seat belts do you use and why?" It was not about how you feel about using seat belts, and was not asking your opinion about seat belt use, or lack of it.

Those that choose to not use seat belts probably shouldn't have responded past "No ones." though even that was outside of the scope of the question. The Non- belt people probably should have just stayed out of this thread entirely. Their entry into the thread has provoked the drama.

Several good answers have been provided. Maybe it is time to lock this thread.

 

I got them through Summit since they are in Reno.
The main thing I took from the diagram was that the high point of the shoulder belt could be below shoulder level as long as it was above that 40* line.

 

Acceptable shoulder pivot mounting point: The degrees are determined from a line that is level with the ground, that runs directly on top of the shoulder of the person sitting in the seat.

The farthest forward and above the person's shoulder is: 6" directly (90 degrees to the ground) above the person's shoulder.
Past that 6", the pivot point needs to be set back at least 10 more degrees (80 degrees to the ground starting at the 6" point, leaning towards the rear), up to the height of the roof.
(Note here, most early shoulder harness cars had the shoulder belts mounted in the horizontal roof support above the rear quarter windows, even if they had a "B" pillar. If your ride has a roof, usually the area above the quarter windows is reinforced, with a little extra enforcing a shoulder belt pivot point can be added there.)

The lowest the shoulder pivot point is: At an angle of 40 degrees (to the ground) below (back and down) from the persons shoulder (roughly 22" above a line through the persons hip joint through the intersection of the seat back and the butt seat).

Any area between those high points and the low points is acceptable.

 

I worked at a shop that rented cars. One morning a regular gas customer came walking in to rent a car. He lived 4 blocks away.
His late model Beemer had been struck head-on while going uphill.
I went to the scene and towed it to the body shop. The momentum of the other car had pushed him back off the road.
The Engine, The Transmission, and The Steering Column had all been torn from their mounts.
I don't believe he would have walked that morning without belts on.
The body shop had it totaled.

Answered above. Simply put, there are acceptable limits to the height of the shoulder anchor.

 

If you can see the need to exercise caution to limit risk, it amazes me that you are not able to accept the benefits that wearing a seatbelt will provide if your "plan A" fails.....
Common sense just isn't that common any more. Each to their own.

What are your thoughts about having kids ride without a seatbelt. Their life in your hands......
Ride without one if you want, but don't have kids in without protection.
You don't get to make choices that put them at risk. Not acceptable.

 

Pick A Part junk yard belts, can't beat the price and colors available

 

None. We die like men.

 

G-Force left over from my stock car racing days...never mounted...never out of the box...5 point mount

Grade 8 bolts with large washers...
I wont drive it much but at least I should safer than having nothing.
MikeC

 

I wanted a legit shoulder harness without having to beef up the B pillar. I installed a set of 3rd row bucket seats from a Caddy and I really like the way it turned out. Don’t mind the ugly upholstery lol

 

Overlooking, of course, the option not to die. Google Darwin Awards for further options to die like a man.

 

Since this discussion has ventured into headrests, I installed new bucket seats in my T coupe and they came with removeable headrests. I could have taken them off but thought better and just kept them on. Not that noticeable and every bit helps in an accident. As to the "B" post mount, I welded in the adjustable ones from a Saturn in one of my cars.

 

Now if you are gonna be "period correct", you have to have these headrests...