Anyone who has a 472 Caddy engine in their 1939 or 1940 Mercury ? I have a 39 Mercury coupe and play with the idea to use my 472 Caddy with TH400 box in it. What to do to the original frame ?
Do it! I have a 500ci in a 49 Ford truck. The 368/425/472/500 is a great engine! Surprisingly, for a big block, its not dimensionally very big or heavy. It only weighs about 50lbs more than a SBC. Do yourself a favor, find the rear sump oil pan and pick-up tube from a Eldorado/Seville. You can use the pan from the later 1980/81 368ci engines. If you can find it, I highly recommend the book "Big Inch Cadillac" by Doc Frohmader. Its a wealth of info. Good luck with it! Bobby
I would think it's a snug fit. I have one in my 41 Cadillac. It's a wider car and a snug fit. nothing impossible. But maybe a just go with something like Anything everyone else uses and get driving fast. Like a SBC or SBF or Yblock, or just keep the original flathead. but if you have one ready to drop in. Well start mocking up.
I've got a 500 in my '47 Buick. It's a much bigger car than the Merc, and it's TIGHT side-to-side. Plenty of room fore/aft, but it was a straight 8. I would guess the inner fenders might have to go. I've seen a few BBCs in that chassis, so it probably can be done.
No experience with the swap, but size of a car overall is not necessarily a key issue. It often depends as much as what the engines were. Large cars with big I6's and I8's as OEM often have narrow engine bays and steering engineered around the narrow engines, making any later V8 a little or lot problematic. Nothing work and thinking can't fix.
You need to mock up the engine and trans in the chassis and figure out what needs to be done: what needs to be cut, how to make engine and transmission mounts and how you will reinstate strength in places you cut away for clearance such as the centre X member. You might consider boxing the frame forward of the X member. While you're doing all this you need to be considering steering and exhaust and how that will work, as well as any inner fender mods etc. Lots of mocking and thinking. Not a kit.
the exhaust would probably be a challenge.................these might help with the swap..........................https://www.ebay.com/itm/1859148107...1020246712&itmmeta=01HPR615K5PN6062F6EETZK0BC
Just do what you've got to do to make it fit. Cool engine choice. A little bit of effort like this will set your car apart from all the generic belly button cars. Very cool.
Also find a HEI distributor from a 76 or newer 368. And as said, the rear sump pan and pickup from an Eldorado. Thats what I did when I put one in my 49 Buick. I would think it would fit in the engine bay just fine, the problem will be the X frame / transmission interference. Also consider having enough room to pull the transmission without removing the engine. The 472-500 engines are torque monsters. Good luck.
I have a 472 in my coupe but that is a completely different animal. Off the top of my head I think the biggest concern will be exhaust. There are not a lot of options in stock Caddy cast iron manifolds. Get with Cad 500 of Albuquerque N.M. they make a good set of block huggers and specialize in the big Caddy. I got my copy of the Big Caddy book from Speedway. The book has a ton of info and specs. If you can't find a copy and need measurements or info give me a shout. Also as an after thought the TH 400 takes up a lot of room and may be. bit of a challenge. Pete and Jake make a piece to put a 700R in way so anything possible.
I've got a 500 in my 71 GMC 3/4 ton and that engine is wide across the exaust manifolds. It wasn"t close to the "easy" swap that some claim.
I’ve got a 500 in a ride. Does what it’s supposed to. I’m not overly impressed. But in a 7k ride, not a small coupe. Just wanted low rpm torque. Already planning its replacement. Have a running 472 and good th400 but building a 283 for my merc. Doing my first “traditional” build so a 472 wasn’t a consideration. If it were the only engine I had, that would be different.
You will probably do best by keeping the stock exhaust manifolds on the engine. If you aren't planning to modify the engine with some better rocker arms and springs as well as a cam, you will be limited to about 5000 rpm max. If you add the aforementioned parts as well as an Edelbrock intake and upgraded ignition, headers won't really help much. They can often be bought with a usable 400 trans accompanying them for $500-$700. You will want to replace the cam gears as they are plastic and brittle now. Usually low mileage as well. A little upgrading can yield a lot more power because they are detuned for the luxury cars. I put one in a Buick regal. Would scald the tires, and cruised great, but drag strip ET was disappointing. Replace those parts and its a different story. Space wise, simply measure the space between your frame rails and compare the width of the Caddy. Lots of wider engines have been installed in 39/40 FoMoCo. If you put one in, you will enjoy the driveability and you can run a higher geared rear (lower numerically). Don't use any other trans behind one other than a 400 or a 4L80 as they won't be able to handle the torque over the long run.
Will it fit? Sure. How? Ya remove the old, start stabbing in the new. The th400s I’ve seen with caddy’s are long tail shaft ones. Might cause fittment issues. I used a Chevy short shaft 400 with a BOP trans adapter. The engine isn’t much heavier than a 350. But wider. The HEI is ugly. A rear sump from an eldorado or 425 or 368. I’m using a 368 pan. The rockers aren’t adjustable so remember that if selecting performance cams. Custom length push rods and adjustable ones are available if needed. Updated rocker arms can get pricey if you think you need em. Stock valve springs are very soft. I bought a very reasonably priced spring kit from CadCo. I got lifters that’s were too short from Lunitti. Replaced them with with Johnson’s lifters from CadCo. I’d recommend them for parts. My overhaul gasket kit didn’t come with an oil pump gasket. Also got that from CadCo. Valley pans are not included with most of any gasket kits. The valley pan can be eliminated with CadCo intake gaskets.
One more issue when using the Big Cad motor is the oil filter hanging out the front. I used a relocator. I suppose if it works, you may be able to mod the chassis if needed. In my case it interfered with the idler arm.
Yep. At least 2 different oil filter OE options. One downward at an angle, I think the other pointed straight And a couple different filter diameters.
Yes, there are 2 different oil filter mounts. One is a bit more tucked in than the other. The stock exhaust manifolds flow pretty well (avoid the 78/79 425ci right side manifold-it has a huge indention in it). Years ago I bought a set of chrome block hugger headers off of Ebay. They were relatively cheap, about $150. The build quality was good and they had 3/8" flanges at the block. I opted to stay with the stock exhaust. If I were running an open engine bay then I might have used them, but in my truck they wouldn't have been easy to see so I didn't see the point. Good advice going here. The big Caddy's are awesome engines. The blocks are made with a high nickel content that makes them super durable, they make great low end torque without much work, they aren't very heavy compared to other big blocks of similar displacement, and you can get good mileage (if you can keep your foot out of it). I've gotten as much as 18MPG on the highway in my truck (not towing a load) Since the Caddy's were only offered with automatic transmissions, it's not an easy thing to put a manual trans behind one. You'd have to have the crank drilled for a pilot bushing. Again, if you can find a copy of the Big Inch Cadillac book, buy it. Its a great read and has tons of great information about what parts interchange throughout the years.
Well, you guys are making me wanna pull the front of my engine apart and change the timing chain & gears. It's only 62k (ish) but they are 50 years old & now would be the time to do it.
My engine was just shy of 100K when I put it in my 49. While it was on the stand I installed new timing gears and replaced the oil pump for good measure (and new distributor....upgrade to the HEI sparkolator)
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