Technical Single seat speedster steering suggestions?

As I was working on my speedster coolant plumbing and as I get a little further with mocking things up, the question of how to tackle the steering system is starting to creep into my mind. I was originally thinking of some kind of cowl steering setup, but after reading up on it, not sure if it is still suitable for my setup which will use 1/4 elliptical springs that I hope to make from the original Model A front spring.
The issue of course is it being a single seat speedster with the seat centred in the middle of the frame, the steering column will run straight into the engine. If cowl steering is not an option (I don’t have the $$$ for a Schroeder unit), then is it possible to use sprockets and a chain to offset the lower half of the column to get it and the box in the “correct” position? Is another option a bunch of shaft sections with u-joints?
I have a complete Model A column that works although it is a bit crusty. Any other ideas appreciated.

 

I realize your car has it's own set of requirements, it will probably need an extra u-joint and another stub shaft and support bearing, but this is how I built my setup.

 

On a Model A pickup (not mine); very similar to what DDDenny posted.



Also on an antique dirt track racing circuit I used to see a couple of cars that used narrowed roadster bodies with center steer. They both had the steering box on the left frame rail pretty much where a hot rod would have it. Then a shaft entering the interior on the left side of the firewall. Then one U-joint and then the shaft went up and to the center of the car with a column drop. As you can picture the steering wheel was at a weird angle. At least to me it looked like an impossible set up. According to the drivers once they got used to them it worked just fine.

I wish I had pix.

Btw, I've seen a chain and sprocket setup also. I think that someone is making/selling them.

 

Why is cowl steering not an option? Even Pete Eastwood has built cars with cowl steering and parallel leafs on the front.

 

Would not want to guess what to do if a chain failed.
They do fail.

 

Tom,

I agree 100%. Stuff fails, sometimes ccatastrophicaly. If I were to build such a setup (which I never will) I'd probably use a double roller chain/sprocket. Most timing chains run many thousands of miles while spinning at a high speed all the way and almost never fail.

BUT you're absolutely correct that anything mechanical can fail.

I am neither endorsing nor criticizing such setups; just thinking "outloud."

 

I built a box on my single seater starting with a 51 merc box that I reversed and built mounts to make make it cowl steering.

 

Yup, supposedly in one direction in a bath of oil.
When failure occurs you get a report from the motor.
I steering fails the report is yours to write ( or, if you prefer right,-right now )

 

Tom,

You're preaching to the choir. NO ONE is arguing with you.

 

I did not think you were.
Just saying that the constant steering correction is not like humming along at speed.
Also the fear of harm in a mishap, needs recognition

 

Having spent some seat time in a similar cockpit, you do not want anything that generates heat near your legs. The cooling pipe is way too close to your leg.

I think that cowl steering would be perfect for your setup. There should be a good number of used manual sprint car steering gears out there. Of course that's just what I think since sprint cars went to power steering, but that was 40 years ago.

 

PLAN AHead. Cowl steer is your best bet. Ross as used on fork lifts are compact. This one on the table is for my 1950 midget. The primered one is an extra fast ratio. 5" Pittman arm. Midwest Auto Speciaties, Ohio used to list them for race cars back about 1970. PS; Schroeder or Ross work right or left steer. Contact me if you can use the quick steer Ross.

 

My 454 radiator in the back. Stainless steel tubes inside the frame rails. Most likely too late for that for you. PLAN AHead.

 

Thanks for all the replies. Great info and advice. I had another quick look last night, and since the steering wheel will be quite far itself from the engine, I might be able to do a few u-joints with shafts to sneak it between the bell hsg and last exh tube on the DS. Will be super tight in that area, but it might just work. Still haven’t ruled out cowl steering either.
On the topic of coolant pipes, and J really appreciate hearing from someone like @jaracer who has actual experience behind the seat. I actually ran the pump(s) outlet pipe even closer to my foot and leg. Will have to really think about re-routing. I thought about running them below the frame rails, but I wanted to keep them kinda of hidden for asthetic reasons. Can’t run them inside the rails, as mine are reversed and I will insert wood to mimic a wooden frame of the original I’m copying.

 

Also, on the subject of chain drive steering, I came across this on the HAMB. Very cool, but not an option for me.

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/model-a-offset-steering-junction-box.752238/

 

I like Fred’s better.

 

Years ago my friend Jim Rench was building a really cool narrowed T bodied lakester styled car and was facing the same problem. I was talking with a local guy that restored race cars. He brought a smaller version of the big car Ross side steering gear. This was made on the same idea as a Schroeder. It worked perfect and not only fit perfect it looked good. Sadly Jim passed away before he had a chance to drive it.

 

As far as your cooling pipes are concerned. Don't change them. Just pack your right foot and leg with LOTS of insulation.

 

Vega box turned 90 degrees. Pittman arm facing up. Looks like this system would clear your headers. The column support at the top is upside down squared off u shaped. Top 5 trophy. Goodguys Charlotte. 2,500 cars entered.

 

Very interesting. The whole point of hot rodding (to me anyways), is the ability to solve/fab up one’s own idea into reality. This often means borrowing from those who have already been down the same road, but with our personal touch.
Anyways, I brought in this thing from the cold yesterday to see what makes it ticks. Also, watched a few vids on disassembly. I know it is not really preferred over other more modern boxes, but it might serve my purposes as my speedster will never be licensed as road legal.



Next, is the Model A steering bits as it has been a over 5 yrs since I purchased it.

 

Speedway sells these & they would work for your application with a frame mounted box, but I'd run cowl steering on that to keep the "look" you are going for.

 

Use the Model A box and column as is. Miles the mouse Melius. Acknowleged the the BEST Wisconsin modified driver late 60's early 70's. Center seat. Box mounted on frame. Steering wheel at an angle. Voila. Done.

 

Turning your Vega on edge works great. Your geometry looks perfect. That said there's been extensive poo pooing of side steering on this blog. I have a friend in Prescott with an older 32 roadster build and his side steering is some kind of early Ford box with right hand drive gears, that is in the stock location. Pittman arm up. It's probably got 100K plus miles at very high speeds on the car, no problems.

 

Gary. Geometry. Didn't you know I am a race car designer/builder?

 

Most single seat race cars use some form of cowl steering. This one has an interesting take. Appears to be a conventional steering box under the dash, to a bellcrank on each frame rail, to the steering arms.

 

I think you might look at wrapping the coolant pipe with header wrap...the woven fiberglass stuff...
I know asbestos wrap would be period ....but....

 

WET DREAM.

 

Early '50s Ford pickup w/ shortened shaft
cheap
common Model A steering upgrade
built by Gemmer

 

Interesting! That is something I’ve never seen yet.
Looking at the seat, I wonder who is driving that thing. The outside of my frame rails are 24”, and my body just barely squeezes into my improvised wooden seat. Forget about my shoulders.