Technical Stuck Motor - What to do next?

Hi All,

So I got a 1928 Ford Model A Special Coupe and I'm in the process of trying to get the motor to roll over. It was last registered in '83, so I assume its been off the road mostly since then. I've done ATF/Acetone mixture in all cylinders and they hold and drain over a couple of days. Two drain slower than the others, but not that much longer in time. Everything is still locked up unfortunately after doing this for a few weeks. I drained the oil out of the pan and even though it was dirty (smelt horrible) didn't see any milkshake come out or any water phase. Any moisture in it was probably from condensation.

I pulled the pan thinking maybe babbits were crumbled inside or something that would obstruct rotation. Didn't see anything, just usual sediment/dirt/sludge at the bottom. Went through the sludge and didnt see any metallic flakes or anything. All the rods looked okay to me (untrained eye obv.) and none of the cotter pins at the bottom were missing/broken. One rod had a little bit of the "scoop" piece on the bottom maybe chipped, but never saw it in the pan.

I took some pics for everyone, nothing obvious stood out to me.

https://flic.kr/ps/2mrejE

My next thought was to pull the heads and see if the valves are maybe rusted shut? Maybe continue the ATF/Acetone routine and maybe try to do the wood block hammer routine on the pistons? What would be the path forward?

 

Pull the head to see what you got.

 

Fair enough, I’ll keep this thread updated then with progress

 

Get a bigger bar on the socket! Seriously though, I wasn’t expecting it to look like that in the pictures. It doesn’t seem that bad at all. What are you using to turn it over?

 

Also pull the timing cover and look at gear condition.

 

Loosened up numerous "A" motors with my dad in my youth by pulling the head, trimming a piece of large hardwood to fit the bore and giving it some good smacks with a heavy hammer in all cylinders until it broke free. A number of them had the head put back in place and started.
Crude but typically effective.

 

I bought a locked up Pontiac V8 cheap, it wouldn’t budge after doing pretty much what you’ve done. Turned out that the cam was frozen in place. With the chain off the crank turned ok.
Maybe take the cam gear off so you are only working with the crank and pistons.

 

Wrist pins can also stick enough to lock it up. Don’t forget to put penetrating stuff on them.

 

just take the damn thing apart, it's not rocket surgery

 

I hole sawed out a slug of 3/8ths a bit smaller than the bore of a 218 Dodge engine I had. Lucky for me none of the pistons that were stuck were at TDC. Popped the main caps off.
Tapped around the slug.
Started rattling at it with my air chisel.
Yes, had loads of penetrants, etc for a few weeks. But rattling it broke the rings loose from being rusted to the walls.
Had it bored .080 since I had a set of .080 pistons.
Lost track lately of the friend who wound up with the engine, but all was good when we used to BS about things years ago.

 

That thing is dryer than a popcorn fart in the middle of August. Like Jim said pull it apart and be sure to spray it down all over will doing so.

 

Have you unbolted the starter , to make sure it doesn't have a broken or stuck bendix ?

later kb

 

Speaking of wrist pins, on the latest episode of Nick’s garage they had a 440 brought it because the owner was having issues with the intake gasket blowing off. Turned out the wrist pin of one of the pistons had worn a huge groove that looked like a machined keyway into the cylinder wall. The engine still ran. Lol! He had to torch the piston to loosen the pin.

 

Got a breaker bar, with the 1/2” drive 35mm socket on the crank bolt turning it over. And I’m fairly big guy so I’m putti be some oomph into it. Just felt I might damage something it I got too crazy

 

Good idea, anything specific to look for? Broken teeth?

 

Feel this might be the direction it’s heading once I pull the heads. I can see through the spark plug hole and looks like a lot of carbon buildup

 

Good idea, I’ll try to pull that too, goal is too use everything already there. From the engine internals everything *seems* to be good but we’ll see

 

Wrist pins?

 

Haha true, but if im trying to cheat the process that goes counter to it lol

 

Yep I pulled that it it spun freely

 

Have you tried winding it backwards a bit? If it moves squirt some more mix into the sparkplug holes before trying to go forward.

 

Time and energy spent trying to get it to turn could have been spent tearing it down to rebuild.
If you do get it to turn over will you try and get it to fire up not knowing what the internal condition is?
I'm with Squirrel. Remove and rebuild.

 

it usually takes a few hours to take an engine apart, even if it has a stuck piston or two. And if it has a stuck piston or two, you need to fix those bores and rings, so it has to come apart no matter what.

 

I like to free up engines without taking them apart if possible. Last one I made spark plug adaptors for two cylinders and applied 125 psi to them. That works out to a lot of force on the piston tops.
Then I screwed in one bellhousing bolt and pried on the flywheel ring gear against it, which gives way more torque than putting a socket on the crank center bolt or nut.
That freed up the engine and I drove it without dismantling for years.

By the way on four bangers the outer two, and the inner two, cylinders travel up and down together. So apply air to one of those pairs.

 

heh...all the stuck motors I've encountered were really stuck. Maybe they rust different down here in the desert.

 

Removing a head from a model A probably takes less time that typing comments on here.

 

Just drop it into third gear and rock the car back and forth. Not rocket surgery, just physics.

 

I had a 218 Mopar engine that was stuck, did all the tricks, still stuck. Too much twisting on a front crank nut can break them off. I finally pulled the head, still stuck. Burnt the clutch up trying to turn it over by towing it around the yard and popping the clutch. eventually pryed on the rear gear teeth through the starter opening and it turned. Left a very small rusty oil streak in one cylinder about an 1/8" wide. Hard to believe that was enough to make it stuck but it was.
Turn it by the flywheel gear teeth.

Dave

 

By the looks of the cotter-pins someone has been in the motor already. Probably to pull out a shim to tighten up the motor. Model A's are probably the easiest car to work on and take about a half an hour to remove the head to examine the valves.