Technical Why not the C4? TH350 vs C4

@34 5W Paul , and to build off the above question by @73RR , what mods would you suggest for using a C4 in a car that that is substantially larger than the little Fords it came in? For example, full sized cars from the 50s and 60s, weighing between 3800-4500 lbs?

 

Depends on the intended usage. For an all out drag C4 you can put behind 800hp motors you need all the top shelf stuff, the billet input shaft, welded forward drum, fully rollerized gear train, roller planetary, extra premium clutches in the forward drum, premium band, billet servo, deep pan and a full manual valve body. PA sells one they guarantee to 1000hp.

If you were just street cruising a high torque big displacement motor, I'd think a mid level build with just a hardened input shaft, a roller bearing in the #9 position, extra premium clutches in the forward drum, premium band, billet (or modded) servo, deep pan and a street/strip valve body. A soft torque convertor takes a lot of shock off the tranny and drive train, and they soften the feel of hard shifts at part throttle, so while they seem to not be streetable a higher stall convertor can be very street friendly.

The monster post ended up with DIY versions of all the PA C4 builds...

http://www.performanceautomatic.com/products/ford-racing-transmissions/c4-transmissions/

Broader Performance sells a handful of C4 variants between $2300 and $2900 on their 800hp C4 page https://broaderperformance.com/product/c4-800hp-transmission/


It's a kick ass little tiny 3 sp tranny. A few (well, very few) in the know love them.

 

Paul, I also want to thank you for doing the research, gathering the data, publishing it and continuing to share it and responding to questions. That's what makes forums like this great!
I posted earlier my qualms about this trans, as a guy that is not a big Ford fan. If/when I ever dive into a Blue Oval project, this will be my first stop!

 

Behind a 750-800 hp big block I wonder how many runs you can get before a refresh is required?

 

Wow, the Ford Muscle Forum is a huge read.....but alot of good info for this low level Ford guy....the Mrs does drive a Navigator

 

I don't do social, but Greg Cook (Cook's Garage private group on FB) had a 557 in his '65 Galaxie he called The Battlestar Galactica. He had a well built C4 in it for years. He did innumerable (IIRC high 9 second) passes, tons of wheelies and I don't recall him ever having to get into the C4. Now, this was decades ago and I could be completely wrong, but I think I'm probably right. Performance Automatics has a 1 year warrantee on their C4s, so that would cover a lot of runs, I'd think.
As simple as the C4 is inside, and as light as it is, I'd think dropping it mid season to check the bearings, clutch packs and pump would be no big deal. Back in the day nobody ran a billet pump, but they offer those now. Not quite like some of the full aftermarket PowerGlides but getting there.

 

Jim Paquet and a handful of other bright, innovative people have developed the C4 bits and pieces that have helped get the transmissions to where they are today. The full roller planetary was an innovation that until it came along, limited the torque the C4 could withstand.

The Fordmuscle thread was a grass roots, non JPT, non TCI, non PA set of guys who built their own transmissions. As anyone who's raced most anything has learned, it's expensive to rely on someone else to build/rebuild your stuff. When I was racing (karts) I ended up opting to do a lot of my own work. I'd bet most drag racers end up the same way. Faster easier and cheaper to just do the refreshes ourselves. Internally the C4 is incredibly simple.

Can't imagine that any of us couldn't build a solid C4 with a $200 rebuild kit. More adventurous types could go with Red Alto clutches, Kolene frictions, add a clutch to the forward drum, weld (or as I did braze) the drum, add a friction to the forward kit by modding the pressure plate, do some very basic machine work to add 1 (or even 10) bearings in place of the bushings. Valve body mods can be via DIY or a $100 shift kit or buy a valve body already done.

 

With all the C4 stuff stirred up I went over some info I hadn't seen in awhile. One piece jumped out about trans coolers and the ones integrated in radiator tanks.

Water temperature in you motor is 180*. The trans does not have to be hot to work. Heat is the death of a transmission - fluid, clutches and bands. Heat will kill, so the cooler the better. I've never lost a trans since using a cooler separate from radiator.

 

...when transmission fluid temperature reaches 250° F your internals have been damaged.