Technical Cowl steering in a 32 Ford with an F150 box

Read all the posts against cowl steering but still determined to give it a try. The Rolling Bones seem to be able to drive across country each year so must be doable. I realize that they are using the Schroeder box as well.
A little backstory, my new to me Vicky had cowl steering but due to an issue with the box, he was in the process of replacing it with cross steering. He installed a Flaming River box under the left engine mount. The car has a 401 nailhead and with the Sanderson headers, the collector is extremely close to the shaft, plus it does not even come close to the center line of the present column location. I have an assortment of Borgenson joints but can’t seem to get it close. I picked up a 69 Ford F100 box which I will reverse.
Couple of questions to anyone who has got this in their car and has it working.
1. What is the dimension from the bottom of the cowl to the center of the output shaft of the box where the arm attaches ?
2. What is the center to center length of the pitman arm you are using ?
The previous owner thinks that the box he was using was too high so I am thinking it has to be lowered about 3” to run parallel to the split bones. I also think that the original deuce pitman arm is too short and all the research I have done mentions 7” as the correct length.
All advice appreciated.

 

Yeah, unless you have 5' long wishbones...

All about arc of rotation!

 

Ford didn't build an F 150 until the mid 70’s, only F 100, 250 and 350. So you must be working with an F 100 box. Good luck in your task.

 

the suspension in the video has a lot of travel, what is it on, a rock crawler?

 

If you don't have any suspension travel then you won't have any bump steer.

 

or with a more realistic amount of travel, you have a smaller amount of bump steer that you may feel comfortable and be able to live with

 

My bad and you are correct, it is a F100 box.

 

Yeah, it's not good.
Yeah, they use different parts, but...
Check my math and tell me how to make it work.

You are going to have to do body work to move the pivot down.
You are going to have to weld on the frame.
You are going to made or buy parts.
Lots of places sell good reliable setups.
https://www.peteandjakes.com/partslist/?cat=12
My advise is to use a good setup that will fit your car.
If you just must have the rolling bones setup, copy it exactly.

If this was the '50s and you were building a field car out in BFE with no knowledge or help and didn't plan on driving it with other people around, use a darn tractor box, who cares.
Today, you have the experience and knowledge of 80 years of tinkering, swapping and improvements. The roads are full of other people driving cars with better brakes, suspension and steering while also distracted by a thousand things.

 

Thanks and appreciate your comments.

 

The Big 3 created what was called "heavy 1/2" with a bigger payload (heavier rear springs) to beat the emissions requirements. That's why Ford went to the F150 designation.
Randy Gross can alter the F100 box to work

 

There was a speed shop in I think N.C. offering an F100 box converted to side steer, looked like a well thought conversion. I believe Hilton Hot Rods did a number of A highboy coupes using this box. They drove them across country many times. I did a roadster several years ago with a Schroeder box and it drove fine but steered hard as it was an 8-1 box. I did run a steering stabilizer at the advise of Keith at the Rolling Bones

 

Thanks and appreciate the feedback

 

Here's a converted F100 box in @DeadFast 33 's 32 Vicky project, before he sold it. I think this box came from Mike's Speed Shop in NC.



I have no more information, just passing along some info I've seen on the interwebs.

 

Thanks

 

Here's a link to a page on my 27 t build thread. I used an f100 box for this purpose.

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/27-roadster-on-deuce-rails.952566/page-5

This car is finished, I drive it a lot. It has bumpsteer, it is manageable though. No deathgrip on the wheel, just let it float and it returns to center. I dont drive major highways or cross country with it. It is stable and predictable at speed- 75 mph on 2 lane byways is good enough for me. Not interested in stirring the cowl steering pot. I'm just giving some input from real experience.
Matt

 

It scales out to about 2” bounce and rebound on a 24” long radius rod. That seems realistic.

 

Why do people still want to do this? With all the info on it, on how wrong it is. It even looks stupid! When people in the know look at a car with cowl steering all they can think of is what was that person thinking. He obviously doesn't know anything about geometry, or how to set up a front end correctly.

 

I think many do it for "looks" - though there are certain situations where it is really difficult to fit a steering column, clutch/brake pedals and various engine components in some tight quarters - along with a steering box and maybe headers. Think narrower frames and also anything with a Driver's side starter.

 

Or, as I've heard it put," Any suspension can be made to work - as long as it doesn't."

Having said that, many race cars have used some version of cowl steering for decades.

mine- same gemmer box:

 

Don't listen to all the negative posts. I run Schroeders in my 34's and my cars handle just fine. I do use steering stabilizers as well with no appreciable bump steer. The Schroeder is an 8to 1 ratio and takes some getting used to. I don't have any knowledge on the F100 steering box, but you might get ahold of this guy about his steering unit similar to the Schroeder.
Outlaw Hot Rod Parts. I got my Schroeder pitman arm from him.

 

The Outlaw Hot Rod Parts guy is difficult to contact. I did finally get a price on his cowl steer unit and it's a good thing I was sitting down when I read it.

 

Until P-wood came down on cowl steering it wasn’t such a divisive topic. I give Pete all the respect he deserves. Cowl steering is traditional and executed correctly it will work fine on a street car. It does on mine.

 

I remember when Pete did that. It came at a time when I was in the midst of that part of my build. I also remember meeting Joe Kerr at bonneville around that time. He had driven his model a coupe from Indiana to Bonneville solo with the same setup, cowl steering, f100 box etc. Great guy, talented as anyone out there. Proven setup. I just quit posting my build at that time because of the drama. I got over that and continued the thread later on. I also got over armchair pundits after gleaning real experience once completed. There are degrees of success and failure to all of this kind of work.

 

Because people are lazy and want to take the easy way out, so they convince themselves that the easy way is "totally fine". Setting up a cross-steer box in a lot of applications takes a good deal of work to get everything to fit and perform as it should. Sticking the pitman arm out the side of the cowl clears everything, geometry be damned!

 

Just a couple words coming out of my head. My first hot rod I built was A 22 T roadster. And I set it up with cowl steering using a BMW box. It had terrible bump steer, but I drove it for a couple years till I crashed it. That's another story. The reason I used the cowl steering was because it was going to be a little easier. Then set up the cross steering. On my next build I used the same steering box but set it on the frame in front of the cowl like an f1 box and it worked great no bumpster . That's me doing 75 on the way to Vegas.Just my dumb experiences as a 20-year-old.

 

To me this is a lot of work to look ugly and handle bad. It’s not that hard to fit correct side steering or cross steering.

 

And... this why Pete doesn't frequent this site anymore. Please explain executed correctly.