I've been trying to find some opinions. I have pile of parts that will become a banger-powered model A. It the first early Ford I've messed with, so everything is new. I have all the correct steering parts for it, but also everything from a '36. I recognize that it's not a direct swap, but is there any reason to put the later cross-steer set-up in this car? Everything needs cleaned up and rebuilt, so I'm not married to either option. There won't be any crazy work done on the frame or body. Just springs to start. Thanks
Ford only made changes, for good reasons. Without going deep into suspension and steering theory, Ford decided this change was an improvement.
If you decide to go to the work to convert to cross steer, I would not use 36 steering. They are still a fixed tooth sector, similar to the Model A box. If going cross steer, look at 37-48 Ford boxes, as they are the updated rolling sector design. The most popular steering options for Model A's seems to be 53-56 F100 if sticking with a banger, or 48-52 F1 is going the A-V8 route.
That's a bit of a funny statement. Automakers routinely made/make changes in the name of profits, efficiency for manufacturing. When custom building a car, you have the option to do your homework and do better. Newer isn't always better.
Progress was rapid, in car design, pre War. Everything had to be figured out, by trial and error. A lot of stuff was changed to be better, when shortcomings were found, or better ideas were developed. Some, might call it "Progress".
I don't disagree, but it's not as absolute as your initial post sounds. Changes weren't always improvements. We as hot rodders have the information to discern what is a worthwhile improvement for our needs, not merely based on the age of the setup.
Case in point, the 1941 Ford PU. Though cosmetically identical to the 1940 PU, Ford decided for some reason to put a 6 cylinder in them as an option. This meant different front cross member, different hood latch assemblies, a new tailgate (since the '40 gate was stamped with a V8 and that was no longer applicable). All to fix a problem that didn't exist. For a frugal company and it's owner, it has baffled me while building my pickup. And don't blame it on the war, it hadn't started yet when design and production began. Fuel economy? Gas was .12 cents a gallon! These were not road cars, they were work vehicles, farm trucks. All that expense for a 6 banger for a company that made it's name synonymous with the V8 in 1932? 9 years later they spent a fortune to go backwards? I don't get it.
I didn't mean to start a fight. Is there a mechanical advantage to cross-steering, or was that changed to get rid of the outside drag link, or clear something under the car? Do the mid-late 30s boxes have a better ratio? I don't know if my model a box is a 2 or 7(?) tooth. I know one is sturdier.
Model A with Vega box mounted under frame and original side steer... Drove like a dream for thousands of miles. My '34 Ford pickup had a '56 Ford PU steering box and drove OK... But when it goes back together it will have a Vega box also. The Avatar Dodge PU has IFS...Don't go there...
If you look at the steering on a Model T, any one of the 15 Million Ford produced it looks a lot like the later 1930's steering. Did Ford decide the Model A through 1934 setup had flaws and it was time to return to the old style?
If its was my project it would get a Ford pick up steering (somewhere in the fifties but I am not sure of the best year) and I would have Randy Gross (714-292-8660) modify it so it bolts into the A. Search Fordbarn on his name for references, they will all be good. Charlie Stephens
Shameless self promotion incoming... Funny enough...we(Seattle Speed Shop) have a box being finished this weekend by Randy and will be covering the install on the ol' YouTube channel soon. Neal is correct. Don't bother with the 36 box. You need the 37+ box to make it worth while. You're also gonna run into a million issues trying to make that fit past the oil pan in a relatively stock build. The oil is directly in the path that the drag link travels in. If you're moving things around. Maybe you can make it work? You can also move it forward and more parallel with the tie rod. And then make a steering shaft to connect it between there and the column. Personally. And I'm going through this right now on the 29 coupe. 53-56 f100 box is the best solution. Hands down. No question asked. Randy makes it a bolt in. I've had one in my truck for 10 years. It's practically like having power steering in an otherwise stock model A. Literally no modifications if you buy Randy's version. If you choose to do it yourself. There are several things to consider. The mounting flange needs to be cut and redrilled for model A. The sector shaft on the f100 is different than model A and big and clunky. And uses a different pitman arm. The modified version uses a stock pitman arm. The steering shaft length is longer than needed, but also needs to be modified to accept a model A wheel if you're trying to use a stock wheel. And then finally the f100 column tube is different size than the A. Now none of that really matters with building a hot rod. But all stuff to consider. When building my A which was important to keep as close to period correct as possible while hiding some "upgrades". The only "modern" stuff post 1950 is the steering box and the 1968 dual circuit master cylinder. Both upgrades in driveability that I find well worth it and most people aren't gonna know the difference between it and another earlier box visually
Lots of info, saved me from unnecessary gnashing of teeth. I think my short-term solution is to see what I can get out of the stock parts, and keep an eye out for an f1/f100 box that i can swap when I need a project. Thanks.
You didn't mention if you have a decent Model A box or not (or I missed it). If you have a decent 2-tooth box, I'd rebuild that using new sector and worm gear, bearings, etc., and a shortened pitman arm and get on with life. WAY easier than trying to figure out the side-steer deal for what you're doing. I rebuilt the box in my '30 coupe and it worked great, no reason to go to side-steer. You can read about my rebuild here.
I have installed F-100 boxes in a couple of Model A’s and they are really great and if you get it from Randy (here’s another plug for Randy) it a pretty simple swap. The F-100 box does make the steering much better but I think that if I am fortunate enough to be able to build another one I’m pretty sure that I would go with the Vega box.
Thanks for all the input. First step will be to see if my A column is any good. That looks like the quickest path. I've been shopping and staring at parts for months. I need to see some progress.
Randy will ship you a ready to install assembly with a core charge so you can keep your car on the road
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