Technical SBC long to short water pump

Yeah. It's a bit off!
It bolts to the inside of the frame rail and has a bit of a bump out welded at the bottom of the channel to pick up the lower bolt. It also leans back some. All part of the old school charm!
I guess I could shim it to vertical, but it is okay where it is. Straight would put it over closer to the body. Some pics from a few weeks ago. I think the pic accentuates the angle. It's not noticeable at all when driving and is really solid. It's one of the things you grab to get up and in and out.
It's funny, the front shot looks like it's leaning out, the interior looks like it's leaning in! Just remember, the body is currently sitting on some chunks of 1x1 and the cutouts in each corner, and the floor is drywall screwed to a 'ledge' inside the body that isn't perfectly flat or level.
EDIT: just went out and checked. Have one of those old bubble angle finders.
Garage floor was 0-1 degree to the left depending on where you put it.
Frame and top of air cleaner 1-2 degrees left.
Windshield area of body 1-2 left, rear of body level, bed is 1 degree left.
Steering column is level! So it's within a degree or 2 of exact.

 

That looks great!

 

@Jacksmith , It's funny, in the one shot the ribs on the alt kind of match the valve cover ribs!
There's a guy selling a plain pair of those covers for 20 bucks. They would work painted black, but I can't bring myself to paint the aluminum heads, and it would look funny all black except the raw heads and then polished intake.
The current water pump does not have the threaded bosses needed for the mid-mount bracket. It will have to be swapped out. Must avoid slapping more chrome on (front cover, oil pan).

 

Again. The picture of my '39 shows the alternator above the bracket, not below. When I later hung the alternator below the bracket it hangs below the header tube, and since the block below the head is narrower it also tucks in nicely. So it's not hanging outside the header tube, and isn't much wider than the tube.
Don't worry about it though, since you've got another solution. I was simply offering an option, and thought you had read what I posted, not just looked at the picture.

 

No dork pictures today, I promise.
Can we agree that if I used a standard GM alternator with ANY mounts that align with a single pulley short water pump, the depth front to rear on the alternator is too much to tuck in front of the block and heads? It must be placed outside this area to clear. The back of the alternator must be outside the Orange.
Yes, it could be below the exhaust, next to the block but still outside.

I wanted to show you how that works on the T, so I started removing the alt. The pivot bolt is not happy coming out of the aluminum head, so I'll work on that later. Instead, I grabbed an air pump that's roughly the same size and tucked it in as you describe. Sorry I couldn't place the exact same part in place.
First as I got it.


As I hope to attach it.This is when the bolt started to seize. I've soaked it and will work on getting it out. Note the wiring is disconnected. I tried to show you.

The air pump filling in for the alt on the left side, back end outside the V8, below the exhaust, pulley roughly aligned with the front of the balancer. Again, sorry it's not the exact part, but it sticks out.

So, it is on the left when I want it on the right, it bolts to the header, which I prefer not to do (yes, many have been done that way) and it sticks out more than either current or planned. This also shows why the mounts for the low mount Alt that is even lower will cause the alt to run into the frame on a T.
So it is not going to improve things FOR ME. It may be great for you and many others.

 

A GM CS130 alternator is a little smaller if that would help.

 

Got the bolt to come out cleanly. @1971BB427 I hope these explain that I have read, heard and understood.
Alt on frame, directly below header. It's resting on the frame and engine as tight as it can be inward.
It would require an outward swing to tension belt.
Sticks out.

Trying the low mount location, where brackets bolt to front of block. This looks good, but left side not right (run power lead over to the starter lug is more length under engine or around frame) and the length of travel to service belt is close to an inch. Must be perfect length belt and perfect travel in bracket. Good solution for others, requires more parts ($$) more wiring, and has narrow range of motion due to tight frame. Just trying to explain WHY I'm not going this way in my case.

 

years ago I build a 39 Chevy, with a long pump, and the alternator was nicely tucked in....using the stock setup like your T came with. I was pretty happy with that one.

 

Muddying the waters a bit, but there are actually two “short” water pumps for the SBC. The normal one is what you find everywhere. But there is also an early Corvette “short” pump that is about 1/2” shorter than the regular short pump. Takes a different pulley, from memory the centre hole in the pulley is smaller, it has a smaller shaft, and smaller bearings internally.

If you need 5/8” to clear, picking up a 1/2” by swapping pumps gets you most of the way there. Shift the radiator 1/8” forward and you’re good to go.

 

I think the issue is that the short pump uses a flat lower pulley, which means the belt is right up against the damper. And the alternator thus has to sit pretty far back, and there is no way to put it in front of the head/block, like you can with the long pump. So, it'll stick out the side more than he wants.

 

@David Gersic, yes, that is something I've recently found out. Long, short, then Corvette.
It is starting to get complex, which I'm trying to avoid.
The point is to KISS and have fun hopefully while keeping it together during the summer. Spend as little as possible while making the most progress. Explore all reasonable options and chose a course of action that works in this project. I'm happy that so many options are out there, this is not normal on Mopars from the 40s.

There have been suggestions from all over, so I hope that others trip over this little thread and find something that works for them too. It's apparently a popular question, I've never had a Featured Thread before. Very strange...
especially with those parts sticking out all over that are verbotten.

 

I too was waffling on how to get this one tucked in tight, my friend said "just make the cut"
Bam!

 

Yep, saw that one when you posted it. Nice work.
A bit over the top for the 60-'s refugee, stuffed with a big shiny engine, but everything else is just painted thing I ended up with.

 

One can avoid notching frames by rotating the Alt. on it's center line so the adjuster tab is higher. just means the lower mount is a bit longer but the Alt. stays in the same place. JW

 

I think you might have your alternator placement sorted now?
But just in case you want other suggestions (and to perhaps give others ideas), have you considered mounting the alternator under the floor to be driven off the driveshaft? Or a flexible cable drive running back to under the floor?

I saved the following links to my watched threads ages ago, They are old threads discussing some options. I knew they would come in handy at some point…

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/alternator-off-drive-shaft.89519/

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/rearend-mounted-alternator-feedback-wanted.394093/

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/alternator-drive.337080/

Perhaps something in there would be helpful.

Glen.

 

@KiwiGlen , it's funny. I was miffed at a response a while back and had typed up something like How About Pinion Driven and a picture of the Mclaren P1 starter/generator as other pie-in-the-sky suggestions that obviously did not fit the outlines I'd laid out.
I deleted it, gotta be the person you want to be.
Good to have this info in here though, in case future HAMBer has more time, money and fab skills.


I cleaned up the threads, put anti seize on the bolt, hung the alt and marked the lower hose at both extremes to show where the belt was near when hung low. Put it back together and took it over to grab a XL soda. On the way back, with soda in hand, I pulled away from a stop, shifting with one hand and holding the wheel steady with my knee. This is NOT the same car I bought! It didn't get hot, either. Happy days!

 

The $20 covers are finned? In the past, I've seen the covers painted black, then the fins and edges of the mounting area (outer edge) polished.

 

https://prescott.craigslist.org/pts/d/prescott-chevy-valve-covers/7765620566.html

EDIT pic added, to spare disappointment, sorry

 

Oh, forgot they were Vortec heads...
So they're the same as you have but not chrome?