Art & Inspiration Why You Should Do Your Own Work

Who in their right minds puts thread locker of any color on bolts that are torqued? Exceptions made for bolts into water jackets that need sealant. But, thread locker messes with the torque if it is used. Had a shop do some work I couldn't do while my shop was being built. It wasn't a small project and they gave me an estimate. The cost came in several thousand dollars over the estimate and I'm now having to go back and fix what they didn't get right. I have to get the driveshaft re-balanced, so I went to pull it and drive to the shop. They have put thread locker on the bolts. The rear diff flange should be like 76 lbs/ft. I have been fighting with it all day. I have heated them and put an impact on them and still can't get them to budge. I did get the front down and the carrier bearing down, but this is ridiculous.

 

Rattle gun assembly??? This seems to be the new way.
Lot of guys these days think of a torque setting as a recommended minimum....

 

I get it. Irritates me to no end.

 

Professionals are the ones who know where to cut corners. Back in the 70s, I learned repeatedly that businesses will screw up your stuff.

 

Both ARP and Willwood specify Loctite red threadlocker on various fasteners which are torqued. They are pretty reputable companies.

Cheers,
Harv

 

There's nothing wrong with using loctite as long as it's the right type for the job. To get red loctite to release heat the bolt to 550 degrees and crank it out. If it's not coming out then it's not hot enough. As Harv notes above, ARP (and many others) calls for loctite on lots of their stuff. I'm using ARP flywheel bolts where ARP recommends their lube under the bolt head and red loctite on the threads. Same with their ring gear bolts. I've been using it for decades without a problem.

Good stuff.

 

I'm old school...Never used the stuff....never had anything come loose using lock washers , star washers....to each his own....

 

I usally go oppsite and put grease or copperpaste on everything i bolt down.
Make things alot easyier to unbolt if necessery.
And up to this date no parts have falling off my cars.

 

I paid for some mechanic work one time on a shovel head Harley about 25 years ago since I had never worked on a bike before. Anyway, after having to fix everything they worked on, I have never paid someone to work on anything else again…

 

When you have to assemble very expensive stuff for a living and you don't want that expensive stuff to come apart, you use it. That and manufacturer warranty work almost always required it. It's a lot cheaper than having to warranty it and take a hit to the reputation if it comes apart, that's for sure.

I'm a lousy gambler anyway...lol!

ETA: As far as lock or star washers, many manufacturers state to not use either with ring gear and flywheel bolts, for example.

 

Given listed torque values are designed with a dry clean joint and fastener.
Thread locking compounds are wet and are actually a lubricant until they dry.
Many car manufactures use thread lockers.

From Loctites engineers.

According to Loctite, when using their liquid thread-locking compounds on threaded fasteners, you should reduce the applied torque by 20% from dry values. For oiled or anti-seize-treated fasteners, you can estimate a 25% reduction in torque.
Loctite threadlockers can increase the total torque of an assembly, which is known as torque augmentation. For example, if an assembly is tightened to 10 Nm and has a breakaway torque of 5 Nm, it will have a total torque of 15 Nm. Even if the assembly loses 30% of its torque due to vibrations, it will still open at 12 Nm, which is higher than the original tightening torque.

 

Yea, to the specific Loctite question, lots of joints are designed to use it now. I just had to pull apart the driveline in my son's OT vette because someone didn't and a bolt backed out. I work for an equipment manufacturer and there are certain applications where we design Loctite in as the locking device if nothing else will work. Sometimes that comes from the beginning of the design, sometimes we learn after hours of testing. Loctite isn't a bad thing, it just needs to be used as specified.

When it comes to the stuff we talk about here, pretty sure it wasn't used in any of our applications. Although, now that I think about it, I have been using blue loctite on rod bolts for probably 40 years now...

 

https://www.alcoawheels.com/north-america/en/blogs/wheel-torque-do-it-once-and-do-it-right/
See step 5. "Lubricate the nuts"....I wouldn't want to lose a wheel on a big truck...or anything as far as that goes
So not all fasteners are the same
That said, I feel the OP's frustration for having to pay for the aggravation he is experiencing
...I've been fighting loosening a 6" locking ring on a cylinder packing gland nut....just broke my spanner with a 4' cheater...does it really have to be king kong gorilla tight?

 

That reminds me of a good friend whom I worked on cars with over many years.
Strong as an ox.
I’d always yell at him because I couldnt break his nuts or bolts with a cheater bar.
He’d just laugh.

 

Apparently, you haven't seen "my own work".

 

I do.

 

I know a guy here locally who started a "shop" I use that word loosely.
Mickey mouse shortcuts, multiple engine failures, taking apart more than what is needed to work on things and not installing things correctly. He talks a great game, but bills customers hours for nothing. Some people talk the talk but can't walk the walk of doing it RIGHT! I had to distance myself from him due to getting in between friends and disputes is no where I want or need to be.

If You don't know how to do something, find someone who knows to teach you. Or get Youtube certified in the subject. Thankfully we have this forum to help everyone out here.

Heat that nut up with some good torch work, get it HOT, dark cherry red and immediately put a breaker bar on it, it should squeak and move.

 

Lock tite has its place , red in differing grades blue and green all play their part in assemblies when required.

the big one is correct torque. First shop I worked at my boss had me look up torque specs on EVERYTHING I did the first week or so.

I finally broke and snapped at him and asked “why am I looking up torque specs for a water pump , diff cover , or ball joint bolt ?!?!?!?!?!?”

he looks at me a says , once you see correct torque specs you realize stuff really is not that tight .

twisting a 3/8th bolt with a 1/2” ratchet untill your bisep explodes is not a good thing .

this is why I own 6 torque wrenches

 

Sometimes it is, but that process has an official torque spec too. It's value is "FT".

Cheers,
Harv

 

... How tight...???

 

Funny how before this locktite stuff came along, everything I took apart as a young fella came with either lock washer or star washer and very specific tourque perimeters in the manuals, just sayin, seems like it worked just fine and easier to disassemble

 

It's really no mystery at all. Engines put out more power and spin faster. Keeping 450 horsepower going where it is supposed to takes some engineering. Like many other things we work with Loctite wasn't created to make money, it was created to solve a problem. Which it does quite nicely. If you want to risk not using it where recommended then that's your right.

Loctite is cheap insurance, especially if it's insuring your business and reputation. I strive to do things right the first time and have never sweated having to take something apart because I have rarely ever had to.

 

You and virtually every modern auto manufacturer.

 

I do 98% of my own work for this reason. On the 2%, my alignment tech let's me help. If I screw up, it's on me....but I think I screw up less. Besides, finding anyone who knows how to work on old cars is getting almost impossible.

 

I worked on lots of multi million dollar natural gas reciprocating compressors , connecting rod nuts were well over 3 inches . They came with “ slugging “ wrenches to tighten with a sledge hammer . What was I taught as the correct torque , always use the same man to tighten nuts on the same connecting rod . Never switch the hammer mechanic .

I use antiseize on almost every fastener I touch , if not antiseize it gets locktite . Don’t like leaks and parts falling off . When you have 1750 HP ( 327 RPM ) spinning a 10 in diameter crankshaft and it stays together I must of made a good choice .

Just use your head and give it some thinking about thread locking compound and thread lubes all will be fine . Torque all fasteners such as head bolts , lug nuts the same required specific torque and it will be fine .

Just ask yourself “ when was the last time I had my torque wrench calibrated to be correct ? “ Do you always set it to the lowest setting for storage ?

Me I can not answer I know the last time I had any of my torque wrenches recalibrated . Set to the lowest setting for storage , every time finished and returned to toolbox

 

Ive never used lock-tite either... Nothing ever came loose or fell off either

stuff is expensive too, waste of money

 

In dealing with the original question, "do your own work or pay someone to do it for you". I always wonder about that, to me, it comes down to, do I buy the tools to do the job, or do I pay someone to do the job instead. For me, it is always, "buy the tools and do the work yourself". The downfall to this, doing something, after learning how to do it, and never doing it again.

 

I've only ever paid someone else for tires & alignments. I don't trust anyone, a n y o n e, at all.

 

I remember working as a field tech for a NG compressor company when I was in high school and pulling the piston and rod out using the auto crane on my truck with an eye bolt in the tops of the pistons. Those hammer wrenches were the only way to get some stuff done. Fun stuff!

 

Everyone that knows how to use the stuff in the right application. In the right application they're a great alternative or supplement to mechanical thread locking systems (lock washers, etc). I've done a lot of engineering projects involving thread locker in past work lives, and it has a lot of good applications. It has a lot of good automotive applications too. On one of my cars, the front transmission pan bolts on my TH350 would keep coming loose from vibrations while driving, and I'd have to tighten it every couple weeks. Of course, because there's a flexible gasket you can't just tighten them until they are gorilla tight, and any kind of lock washer won't get enough bite in the application. Enter blue loctite. Haven't had to touch those bolts in over 13 years.

To your issue though, it really sucks to pay someone for a job that they don't do correctly. What color did they use? If it was red, you need to heat it high enough (550°F) to get it to release. If not, it's an issue of them over-torquing it, not the thread locking compound itself. Over-tightened stuff is a bit part of why I do as much as I can myself.