As I'm slowly making progress on the sheet metal work on my '56 F-100, I'm starting to plan ahead for the paint. I don't know much about doing real paint jobs. I've done some primer jobs and some basic single stage stuff under the hood/firewall of some cars and a handful of chassis. My plan is to paint my truck in my garage with a single stage paint from Summit Racing (relabeled Kirker) Wimbledon White, Gloss, Acrylic Urethane, SUM-UP322G. Here's the thing, I don't want to use the wrong combination of materials that will result in a garbage finish or future issues. I don't care for a fancy finish, and I fully expect to have runs/orange peel, as well as other mistakes and blemishes due to my lack of experience and it being a low dollar home garage paint job. I can live with that, but I don't want to have problems with the components not meshing together causing problems in the future. So, how to I find the right combination that all work together, from primer, filler, sealer, hardeners, etc., to the final coat of paint? I want to start buying the materials now, as I plan to get the cab interior & underside of the cab floor, underside of hood/fenders, all done before the end of the year, and then the final exterior finish done in the spring. If you have a list of components or part numbers for me that all work together from the bare steel, and each stage up to work with the paint I'm using, I'd appreciate it, but any information is knowledge, and very much welcomed. Thanks,
I’m lame when it comes to mixing and matching compatible things. I ask where I’m buying it, let them put it together.
And here is the problem with auto parts in general today. The internet is cheaper but dumb. You have to know what you are looking for and the fault lies with you if get it wrong. I buy from a local paint store where the manager has been in the business for 30 years (that’s when I started doing business with him). He is not the cheapest in town, and I could do far better on line but his knowledge makes my paint jobs turn out nice and that is worth the price of admission for me. Some live in remote areas or stated that don’t sell to the public, I am lucky to have local options.
Unfortunately, Summit Racing isn't much help there. I will definitely look into local paint supply companies, but I don't want to be misled by some salesman trying to earn his bonus by selling my naive ass some bullshit I don't need.
If you start from scratch, use the Summit epoxy in black, gray or white as a base and sealer. For blocking use the high build urethane primer in gray or buff. Seal after finishing all of the prep work with epoxy again. Shoot your color but if you can shoot at least 1 coat of the high solids clear for uv protection. If necessary, you can sand out mistakes with 800 grit or finer and then clear and it will look good. If you need part numbers, I will dig them up for you. Be patient and may the paint god smile upon you.
My shop , hunert years ago, in Orange Ca, was couple blocks from Stan Betz Speed and Color. That was a good paint shop. But that was back before all the silly EPA regulation, basecoat clear coat, epoxiezella stuff. Plus all us old skoo painters dont know wtf we're doing and are confused, now dayz . Now, I live in the boonies down by a river and and only auto paint store is small and 75 miles away .
The beauty of single stage is you can wet sand, buff and polish some of the orange peel, dirt and bugs out and end up with a very respectable driver paint job. It quite stressful trying to paint a whole car all at once. It’s way more fun to do just a panel or 2 at a time. It’s also a good idea to paint the bottom of the body and firewall first…then you can bolt the body onto your finished/painted chassis, and do the panel at a time thing, and be able to move the car around.
Ya don’t use etch and epoxy together. After that, as long as you follow instructions things generally work. I’ve used brand A paint over brand B primer without any issues. Each paint manufacture has their recommended products. When you look up the paint tech sheet it will tell you what substrates (what your painting on) are comparable. What primer, sealer, surface prep, drying times ……….. generic products are listed as substrates. Epoxy and urethane are mentioned. Then mentions Summits products. there is your recipe from the paint manufacture for how to use their paint.
Search out a good local automotive paint store...period. Talk with them first before buying...tell them what you're planning. Tell them about your experience (or lack thereof), about your gun(s), your compressor, your shop environment, etc. A good paint store will have helpful, knowledgeable sales counter people (who've actually painted cars). They won't be the cheapest option, but, they will be there to answer questions, sell you the right combination of materials, and "hold your hand" through the process. Plus... they can probably help you get out of a tough spot if you get in trouble. Preparation from the sheet metal up is where all the work is...squirting paint is the easy and fun part. Be aware a lot of automotive finishes can be harmful to your health and/or deadly without the proper ventilation and respiration...make sure you don't cut corners here. Don't buy paint from an auto parts store that sells paint as a sideline!! Dudes selling brake shoes don't typically know their paint lines very well.
I use kirker products. They have a complete line of paint products. Prices are good and if you take the time to read their instructions you will have a positive result.
Here’s ya one for Kirker https://s3.amazonaws.com/cdn.autobodytoolmart.com/downloads/tech-sheets/KIRKER-ULTRAGLO-URETHANE.pdf tells you the compatible products from that same brands product lines. But any brand automotive urethane, enamel, base coat will work with other brands undercoats (primers) when applied correctly.
In 60 + years in the body shop and paint I was fortunate to have a French/Canadian that worked for STANDOX that really knew how to paint Reniey could paint anything and make it look good cars and motor homes and and large race car trailers like John Force or Rusty Wallace used. When you go to clear one you need a 5 gallon pot to mix it in and really know what you are doing because you have a whole lot of dollars tied up before you pull the trigger. Yes you can miss match brands. Like the man from the Twilight Zone said DON’t mix acid etch with epoxy because it’s guaranteed to peal in large sheets.
I don't see any mention of whether your project has any rust (surface or rusted through panels.) Start your paint and body refinish system with products for the condition of the bare metal. What condition is the bare steel in? Pictures would be helpful. What do you have for experience prepping and body work? What do you have for tools and equipment (body work and spraying)? What paint, primer and refinish products have you used in the past? Do you have a friend or someone close by that can mentor you through the process and products/materials? Do you have a good shop/garage to do the work in? Do you have an adequate size air compressor for spraying primer and paint?
These guys have the goalposts laid out for you, so I'll add a few small extras. I did what little I've done at a school with a booth. Stuff had to be scheduled and little time for practice. Doing this at home there is no excuse not to practice on smaller, less critical stuff first.Also, look into the local colleges. It helped me! Mixing cups and sticks. Strainers and gun cleaning supplies. Wax and grease remover, tack rag. The point when you are suited up, the car is prepped and you are stressing is not the time to be lacking basic necessities. Make sure you have ALL the stuff you need ready to go. I also lay a strip of tape next to each side of the ratio on the cup, so it's fool (me) proof. Even if this is an outdoor, single stage, pollen season spray, it's really nice to have a table with all your stuff laid out. Some guys work out of a bucket of tools, others have to have their tool box spotless. Paint work rewards the latter, although there are painters who could do it in a cave. @anthony myrick has posted a couple sheets. You may have a 'that looks like homework' attitude toward this, but they really do provide needed info and you should read and understand them.
Read through this and ask some questions. https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/phosphoric-acid-a-pictoral.263091/ and this for reference https://www.ppg.com/refinish/en-US/support/technical-tips
I went through this same scenario a couple years ago when I did my '39 Chev coupe, and had the same concerns since it was my first paint job. I ended up going with TCP Global Wimbledon White paint kit, and also got epoxy sealer, and primer from them to ensure it all was compatible. I shot the epoxy sealer on as soon as I got the body stripped to bare metal. I had already done patch panels, but hadn't done the final bodywork, so the epoxy sealer was just to avoid flash rusting. Then I did final bodywork and filler over the sealer, and once it was done I shot high build primer. Then one final sanding and I shot the single stage acrylic urethane paint. Buying it all from one paint supplier vs. an auto parts supplier made me more comfortable. Not sure auto parts stores really understand paint like paint suppliers do.
I think I get something everyday from Eastwood ex trolling the virtues of their paint. Is it hype or do they sell good paint products?
I understand that it actually works with some people, otherwise companies wouldn't advertise to saturation. I hate that. I actively avoid anyone who feels the need to shove their product or service in front of me every day or more. Eastwood hasn't been associated with junk stuff that I'm aware of, though.
The resins used for paint products come from the same chemical companies. They get bought and modified at paint manufacturers. Places like Eastwood, Summit ……sell a product with their label put on it. Some brands seem to work better than others but they all work when you follow instructions. You’re buying a binder (enamel, urethane, lacquer…..) with pigments (color) added. The paint manufacture can do things like add chemicals that can make the binder adhere better, gloss levels and UV protection, flex for plastic parts, little more chip and chemical resistant….. Pigment or solid content is where a lot of the price difference comes in. A cheaper paint usually has fewer solids and takes a little more paint to get full coverage. Top line paints are geared for collision spot work so you’re buying the latest in paint color matching. Not needed for our all overs.
Don't buy products if you are not going to use them for months especially if you are buying online. You have no idea how old the stuff is they are sending you until you get it and if it's months down the road before you use it it's even older at that point and often the retailer won't help you out if it's old. I just had to deal with a customer this week who bought primer online to save money because it was cheaper than the local paint supplier. He sprayed his car with it and it didn't dry. The hardener they sent with it was more than 3 years old so no longer working. Online retailer wouldn't help him so I got the local guy who was too expensive to help the guy out. He's lucky the local jobber is a really good guy or he would have been SOL. I see this type of bad inventory management a lot with places that warehouse stuff online retailers seem to be the worst for this. Products get pushed to the back of the shelf then when they start running low the stuff that has been on the shelf for years gets pulled out and sold. Dedicated paint jobbers tend to have a lot less of these types of problems because they tend to be ordering for one location and know how much product they are going to go through unlike a warehouse or online vendor.
Perhaps you could talk with them and get a recommendation, then let us know and we can guide you as to whether or not you should follow it? I never bought paint products "ahead of time", because they go bad just sitting there. That's another reason to deal with a local source, you can get what you need when you need it. The cost difference is real, though. Basics about compatibility: Any chemicals that you mix together (ie paint, reducer, and catalyst) need to be from the same "system", and mixed per the instructions. When you are putting on another "layer", ie primer over filler, or color over primer, then you can use different brands, but pay attention to what type of "system" it is...make sure to follow the instructions for what you're putting on top, that tell you what surfaces it can be applied over, and what the required prep is to that surface (cleaning, sanding, drying time, etc) It's not really rocket surgery. I never had any trouble with product incompatibility following these general rules, even though my manual skills aren't the greatest.
Most all of the above had some good advice. The only thing I could add would be if you had a contact or could make contact with a local rod type collision rebuilder that buys paint/supplies every day and uses every variety in his work. Not only will he know what works/doesn't but will give you info where to get the paint, etc. One thing I would add, total up what it's truly going to cost you in supplies and see just how close/far away you are from having a pro like the contact guy do it. He's a proven. It's all totally in outer space these days, paint costs, labor, time and on and on. Wish you well, you're heading down a tough road no matter what you decide to do.
Just do some reading, look at the sds sheets, tech sheet and the local paint store for just for compatibility on products. Buy the same brand products for top coat (reducer, paint and catalyst if needed), then just make sure your primer/sealer is compatible. I recommend buying a cheaper gun for primer and a decent gun for top coat.
I’m a tech sheet nerd. Got burned my the paint store “expert” once. I know the guys at the store I use now. Both paint cars. I still look up the tech sheets
Thanks again. All great info! This truck is being taken to bare steel. Right now as I'm removing any rust, and doing body work like hammering out any dents and imperfections, I'm just using rattle can primer over the freshly repaired metal, but intend to sand everything down to bare steel before the real paint/body begins. After reading here I've decided I'll use the paint booth at work instead of my home garage. I simply do not have the space to be organized at home. We don't do automotive paint at work, but we do have a good booth, paint guns, compressor, and all of the mixing supplies and space that I can use anytime. Although the booth is large enough to fit the entire truck into, I plan to paint the truck in separate pieces since the body work and assembly will be done at home. I know a guy who does paint & body locally, builds hot rods, and used to teach at Wyotech, so I'll swing by and pick his brain for info.
@TexasHardcore Great that you have the booth at work, BUT take in a separate sample part that has been prepped the same as your project and shoot it first! If the chemicals in the booth react in any way with your truck stuff, you want to know before laying down on your primer, sealer and color. EDIT: This will also give you a trial run at doing the job. Make the mistakes and figure stuff out on the test part! Good to have a guide, too. I will mention that most guys have preferences, so he may push particular things and processes. If he's going to walk with you thru the process and help with issues, fine. If he pushes you down a path and then leaves you in the woods, not so good. It's been said any monkey can shoot, the real painter is the person who can fix (and avoid) the issues.
Spraying your bare metal with rattle can primer might be the fly in the ointment. It might result in a reaction to whatever you shoot over it since there's no way to know much about rattle can primer. I think it's OK to do so to prevent flash rusting as you go along, but you might consider stripping the rattle can primer off and shooting epoxy sealer and primer before doing your paint job.
Yes, surely sanding it back down to bare steel, the rattle can primer is just to prevent flash rust. The paint we use at work is acrylic urethane PPG, so it shouldn't have any weird reactions, but that is a valid point and I will definitely be running a few test pieces in before doing any of the bigger stuff.
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