What are yall using for seat belts? I think I want airplane style but I don’t know. 40 ford, patina, going with dark leather interior. Looking for something cool. Also looking for ideas on mounting points?
I use the lift latch style and get them from seatbeltsplus. American made, and they'll send you free color samples so you get exactly what you want.
I don't know what belt you should use, but mounting is the most critical issue. Cars of that era were not designed with seat belt mounting in mind so it requires an alternative route. You could weld in frame cross members to take the mounting point or you could try these mounts from Juliano's. I have installed them in seven cars and if you have good sheet metal in your floor, they are great. https://www.julianos.com/Lap-Belt-Anchor-Kit-for-Bench-Seat-p/ju010600.htm They also offer an incredible selection of belts. Worth checking out. Warren
Seat Belt Plus They offer the old chrome clam shell seat belts, looks exactly what was in my dad's new 1962 Ford Galaxie. Do not mount the Seat Belt to the frame, all the companies offer seat belt hardware that is much larger than using big flat washers, mounted to the floor the belt attaching point can expand but attached to the frame there is no give, in a sever roll over or crash should the body get loose from the frame a person could loose their legs or life. HRP
Danny Many years ago, there was a tragedy locally with a fiberglass Cobra that was involved in a double fatality, the story I heard was they were both found still strapped in their seats outside of the car. This really had a bearing as to how I mounted my seats, directly to the frame.
Latch-link belts are not FMVSS approved. If you're concerned for safety for a street vehicle I would go with a FMVSS approved design, personally. I would rather build a crossmember in the body that the belts and maybe seats bolt to. Being attached to the frame when nothing else is may also not be good. If the body gets loose and you're still attached to it (assuming a structurally sound closed body), that might be your best chance at survival.
Just about all of the seatbelt manufacturers have guides on how to mount their products. I assume you are using lap belts only. Be aware that too high of mounting points can cause internal injuries on impact. Too low is not only uncomfortable but might actually allow the body to slip out of the belts depending on the seat construction and and what it does on impact. Use quality hardware, most manufacturers offer a number of options. Not the place to use cheap hardware store eyebolts. Shoulder harness mounting is also critical. Too low can cause compression injuries of the spine, too high will not hold you in seat in a roll over and sometime even in collision belts will slip off shoulder.
I prefer the airplane-style lift-latch seatbelts. The latch link look more vintage, but they don't meet FMVSS requirements and they're a bit clumsy in my opinion. Juliano's makes good stuff, but so do a lot of others.
Denny , our club was on our way to Myrtle Beach and a guy in a Chevelle decided that we were going too slow so he pulled around us and sped on down the road, about 45 minutes later we came to a stop and notice a red glass 34 ford in the medium, it seem the Chevelle clipped the 34 and he lost control, the glass body had ripped loose from the frame, the driver and his wife were still strapped in there seats to the frame that was upside down, both were deceased. We didn't know the people they were from Virginia but seeing the carnage has stayed with me to this day. HRP
I don't believe DOT deals with seat belt standards in the US. I believe it is Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards that does. Multiple US based seatbelt manufacturers mention this on their websites.
You're correct, I got that wrong and corrected my posts. It's FMVSS. Juliano's has a warning about it for latch-link belts on their website. "Please note that these belts are for off road or show use only. They DO NOT meet FMVSS 209 or 302" Latch & Link Lap Belt FMVSS 209 relates to the construction and testing of the actual belt and latch designs and assembly and their requirements. FMVSS 302 relates to flammability of the belts.
There seems to be mixed info on this. Both Seat Belt Plus and Wesco claim they do meet the FMVSS standards. https://www.seatbeltsplus.com/product/31800-60.html https://www.wescoperformance.com/3-point-seat-belt-chrome-retr.html
There's nothing mixed about the info. The 2 links you posted are lift-latch style seatbelts. That design satisfies FMVSS standards. The design I linked to and a lot of the race-style belts (like the Simpson ones posted earlier in this thread) are latch-link style, which does not meet FMVSS standards. I didn't see anything on Seatbelts Plus or Wesco which showed that they sell latch-link style seatbelts.
On my way to work on Wednesday I saw a city bus enter an intersection on a yellow in the right turning lane and cut off all the traffic in the straight-through lane, and then 3 minutes later saw someone turning left through a crosswalk where the intersection was blocked so no vehicles were allowed to turn left. You really have to be defensive about what other drivers might be doing these days. Part of that is making sure your vehicle is reasonably safe should one of the idiots make it past your defences.
Racing belts are very rarely approved for street use. States with Seat Belts laws usually state if the vehicle came with belts from the manufacturer they are required. A very few states tried to require retroactive seatbelt installation. I believe these laws have all been overturned. If you've installed non-FMVSS approved belts you should check with your state laws to make sure they can't site you for using non-approved restraints. If you have installed approved belts, you are now required to use them regardless of if they were originally equipped or not. As has been mentioned, the belts are only as good as their mounts. Make sure you plan the install and do some serious what ifs on where and how to install them. You can never be safe enough while driving. Safety is really about risk management, not risk elimination. Edit: And so far we're just discussing seat belts. Shoulder belts and restraints are a whole other can of worms. If your seat back can flip forward, what happens with rebound during a crash, ect, ect, ect....
I have concerns about using lap belts in a car with a solid steel dashboard. I have plans for shoulder straps of some sort in my Chevy.
I've always thought one of the joys of playing with old cars is I don't have to deal with seat belts. But...thats just me.
I solved it this way on the coupe and placed my construction of angles and box profiles on the frame rails and attached a continuous plate from below with high-strength screws, inserted a stiffener under the parcel shelf so that the bracket cannot bend towards the middle, in addition the bracing was screwed to the body support and the flange, I hope that I never have to test this, there are simply too many imponderables. Greetings Harald
I can take photos of the scars my wife still carries from falling out of our 48 truck almost exactly 46 years ago. She found out that she was pregnant with our daughter in the emergency room when the Doc who was taking care of he asked a couple of questions and then asked if she wanted to take a pregnancy test. It's not fun watching your wife roll ass over tea kettle out of the truck because she was leaning on the door and it popped open. I've come on too many accidents where the driver or an occupant was killed when they got thrown out including one guy who got thrown out of Chevelle 200 yards ahead of me when a burnout to show off for his nephews turned into a roll over ending with the car sitting on his head in a field.
I've walked away from two helicopter crashes where I had that type of seat belt and shoulder harness on, I wasn't the pilot though. They are a bit hard to open when you are hanging upside down though. My only worry is if they are surplus military belts is that they may be so old that the fabric has deteriorated.
We used 2 inch flat bar in my 48 that runs across under the floor and two seat bolts go through each piece of flat bar. There is enough surface with the flat bar that it spreads any pull over a large area. One could use a wider piece of flat bar with a glass body and even glass it in under the floor.
For your information: the webbing seat belts have a certified strength that far outweighs leather straps. Plus, there is no flexible leather that is as comfortable as the adjustable nylon webbing straps. As far as looks, yes, the leather can be dyed, buffed or given an antique look. But, it will remain stiff every time you use it. For us, it would be too uncomfortable and not have the safety strength of the nylon webbing straps. But, that is your worry and choice. Hello, It sounds like a nice idea for the leather straps style with the flip over buckle lever. My wife and I like all things leather, but not for seat belts. There are many different styles of such a design. It looks cool and it is similar to those 5 point harnesses we see in drag racing cockpits. Initially, that was my idea for our 327 powered 1940 Ford Sedan Delivery. It started out as a project car and took many months of work to get it to safe driving, handling, stopping mode. My wife liked the sedan delivery and after she drove the Ford after we got it home, she said she could not drive it the way it handled and stopped. So, the work started. After many months of my own work and then the help of a professional suspension friend who owned his own shop, he got it to work perfectly repairing some and replacing a lot of parts to make it all work well. Now, my wife said it drives great and she would drive it around. But, now, there were no seat belts. So, the work continued. My first choice was a 5 point harness like those we saw at Lion’s Dragstrip. since we had bucket seats, each one would get their own to sling over the seat + occupant. There were plenty of spots for the now different mounting bolts front and rear. In my mind, those 5 point harnesses were what made it look like an Altered sedan delivery. it certainly would have secured the driver and passenger in their seats. We visited a shop that had a race car with bucket seats and the said harness. So, we both tried them on and sat in the bucket seats. It was a car ready for the Gas Coupe/Sedan Class and daily driving. As we sat and tried them on/off, something was prevalent. The seat belts locked us in place, good. But, continued in and out of the seat, the constant over the shoulder straps and the in between seat belts were a little too much. Yes, we could just use the side to side seat belts and not the shoulder or lower seat belt. Plus, the 5 belts did not agree with my wife’s clothes or comfort. YRMV When we sat in my dad’s Buick, the simple GM seat belt adjusted well, was comfortable and for 98% of the time, the right combination of comfort and safety. We were not going to race our cars, so there is that. Jnaki So, I got a pair of tan GM seat belts from a factory dealer down the street and proceeded to install them. The upholstery was tan color material on the seats, doors and rear cave. So, the tan color nylon belt fit right into place. Simple, factory safe and comfortable for daily in/out motion and adjustable. My wife was happy and now, it was difficult to get her out of driving our 327 powered 40 Ford Sedan Delivery on her own errands, friend visits and shopping sprees. Note: Here is a short story about the installation on another post from a long time ago: Installation of the seat belts in a 1940 Ford Sedan Delivery… Satisfied wife, satisfied life… ha! The seat belt placing is up to the owner, as to comfort and fit. In the factory, the design team decided where they thought the seat belts should be placed. So, they did not take into account the millions of different drivers that would drive the factory placed installations. The idea of it can be adjusted was satisfactory. There is no specific place on your floorboard, then sit in it, have someone place the seat belt on and drape it down to the floor in a relatively straight angle. Do it for both sides of the driver, as you sit in place. Now, mark the floor with the temporary hole from the chrome stanchion. Look around to see if there are any raised parts or double floor levels. If so, those double places are the strongest. But, since your car like most of our old hot rods did not have factory seat belts, then you have to select the place where it is comfortable for you. Once you drill the small hole, then place your washer and nut/bolt through. If there are any hinderances, selected another close by, flat location. Now, use the given flat washer from the dealer’s supplied parts. Get a wider but similar hole washer than the one provided. Use the factory provided washer as instructed. Then to finish the installation, use the wider plate under the floor for more security. The redline is the floorboard. The yellow line is a wider washer than provided or a simple separate, wide plate under the floorboard. I was driving it home from a photo shoot one day and got caught in a CHP traffic road stop for vehicle inspections. Those kind that require random selection of cars to be pulled over to the side for a vehicle inspection. The CHP inspector thought the red Ford Sedan Delivery hot rod was going to be a gold mine of infractions. So, he started with the headlights and brake lights and worked his way inside. When he saw the seat belt installation, he went to the floor behind the seats. He gave his approval with flying colors when I explained how I installed the custom GM Chevy factory seat belts into the 40 Ford Sedan Delivery. Yes, it was a Chevy product in a Ford, but, they matched the upholstery perfectly. We placed a smooth, opaque custom piece over the hidden GM logo and it looked as if it was a custom product. Which it was! The CHP guy liked that I put in a second wider washer plate underneath when I explained the installation. Strength plus… YRMV
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