Projects 1929 Roadster A-V8 Hydraulic Brakes and Steering Gear Setup

Back in the late Spring of 2022, our Pasadena Roadster Club President, David Steele, reached out to ask if I would do some work on the A-V8 chassis for his 1929 Roadster project. Of course, I told him I would be happy to.

In the early 2000’s David had gathered a pile of traditional parts including a stock A frame, 1932 K-member and front axle assembly and the complete drivetrain removed from a 1939 Mercury slated to be street rodded. He then managed to build a rolling chassis with the old Tardel/Bishop How To Build an A-V8 book as a guide. The K-member was cut down to fit, rear of the frame stepped the height of itself, Merc rear mounted with weld-on spring brackets and torque tube and driveshaft shortened. He also used the Merc spindles, brakes and transmission. The chassis rolls on 1935 16” wires with 6.00 and 7.00 Firestone Deluxe Champions. A solid start that, unfortunately, did not see any progress for over 20 years.

Below is the dusty chassis as I had received it with 59A mock up engine sitting in it. My first mission was to complete the brake system with pedals, master cylinder, lines, hand brake and assemble the brake internals.



The first step was to remove the superfluous original center cross member. With the K-member in place this original piece is not only redundant and not needed, it’s in the way of setting everything else up! I carefully drilled all of the rivets and knocked the cross member out followed by a thorough cleaning of the whole chassis. So much better!





The beauty of this frame being fit with a 1932 K-member means that my 32 master cylinder kit and and hand brake kit will bolt right into place making the hydraulic brake setup a breeze.

I started by mocking up the hand brake cable tube that clamps on the torque which I make to accommodate all years of torque tube.





The front of the tube is supported by a guide plate that bolts on under the transmission mount bolts that keeps the tube from deflecting but allows it to articulate with the axle/torque tube.



I also installed one of my hand brake handle brackets that mounts a stock 32 handle to later transmission shift tops like this 39.



With the hand brake kit test fit I then installed the master cylinder and mount from my kit and ran the rear brake lines. They are 1/4” epoxy coated steel with armor spring installed where exposed. The T-fitting bracket between the front of the radius rods is also a part that I make in the style of original 42-48 T brackets but from thinner 16g making it a better fit. The T-fitting is 1942-1948 reproduction.





















To be continued…

 

Pardon my ignorance, but is the tube a guide for the emergency brake cable?

 

Yes. Next update will show the cable installed.

 

PART 2

It seems that I failed to take pictures of the front brake lines installed (or failed to save them, it was over 2 years ago) but thankfully I did save a video walk around which you’ll see at the end of this post.

Upon fitting all of the brake lines I removed and painted the hand brake kit along with any clips and small brackets.



The front hand brake cable as it attaches to the handle. While the 1929-1934 handles are the same, the lower ratchet piece varies. This ratchet is 1930-1931 which places the handle higher than the 1932 ratchet would, which is why the cable is angled upward out of the guide tube. This will work fine but with the correct 1932 ratchet the cable would be in a straight line to the handle.



The front brake grease shields were incorrect 37-38 units so I changed them out to the correct 39-48 shields with the flat on top to clear the brake shoe springs. After that I assembled the brakes including arc-grinding the shoes to match the drum sizes.











There was no left front steering arm so I installed a new hairpin arm.



The other thing I did was replace the tie rod bar with a new one as it had a healthy bend right in the middle (the bent bar can be seen on the ground in the video below) and the end housings were restored with new internals.





For front hose brackets are I produce to fit 1928-1934’s. They sandwich between the frame and original shocks and the top edges are profiled to match. The owner will eventually have Model A shocks restored and installed over top.



Here is the walk around video showing everything to this point. I originally recorded it vertically and had to edit it to be horizontal so YouTube would categorize it as a video, not a short (which the forum won’t embed) so it’s a bit cropped on the top and bottom but most everything still shows well.



To be continued…

 

‘is it just me, but I would add an internal triangular gusset or two to these spring mounts. I fear that they could bend over time. It might just be me overthinking it, but it’d be an easy do now before they see some road time.
Having said that, you are a true craftsman Dennis, and I hope I can do 1/2 as neat a job as you, when I do my brakes in the new year.

 

Are the shoes the CW Moss new shoes? I need to order some, and was wondering about the quality of these new shoes vs. relining my original '40 shoes.

 

Adding gussets certainly couldn’t hurt but more than likely it will be just fine. Not saying the bracket design is good or bad but I’ve seen similar on many cars over the years and can’t recall seeing examples of failures. I’d be more concerned with the quality of the welds holding them to the axle housings as many of those examples I’ve seen range from scary to gross.

And thank you for the kind compliment!

I honestly don’t know what brand the shoes are. I bought them from The Early Ford Store in San Dimas, California. I don’t recall having any issues with them. That said, you have to be careful with the repro shoes because some of them are too thick at the bottom where they go under the anchor plate causing them to bind when installed. Just as the original shoes they should be visually relieved.

 

PART 3

At this point the brake system is not complete as there are no pedals or master cylinder pushrod. I will be using 1932 pedals but the pedal arms will require being reshaped so to properly fit them I need to have the steering column in place. That means taking a break to fit the steering gear.

David had nothing in the way of a steering gear so he asked me what his options were. Model A steering gears are a fast 11:1 ratio so I offered that one option would be to use a 1932-1934 gear box which the Model A side sector shaft housing will bolt right onto. 1932 to mid 1933 gears are a 13:1 ratio. Still fast but better than 11:1. Later 1933 and 1934 are a 15:1 ratio. Better still but original gear sets in good condition are tough to come by. Good quality reproduction 15:1 gears are made but at the time were not in stock anywhere that I looked. I turned to our personal stock and found a 1932 gear box with exceptionally nice original gears so the decision was made.

Another popular option would be to modify a 1948-1952 F1 Pickup gear box to fit (which is what the Tardel/Bishop hood shows) or modify a 1953-1956 F100 Pickup gear box to fit. While these function nicely thanks to their 18:1 ratio and roller sector gear, they are bulkier making fitment tighter and decidedly post-War. Since David’s roadster will have a pre-War aesthetic the 1932 gear box was the best choice.

David was able to separate the cowl from his roadster body for me to use for mock up.





Below the Model A sector shaft housing is on the left and the 1932 on the right. The Model A bolts on exactly the same and has the same gear lash eccentric.



The Model A sector housing installed on the 1932 steering gear.



I first installed the gear box in the stock A location and it was immediately apparent that this location would not work with the V8 engine.









I removed the sector gear/shaft from the box so that I could experiment with clamping the box in various locations along the frame rail. I found that 5 - 3/4” rearward was where it fit nicely.







Satisfied with the new location, I went ahead and drilled a new set of holes in the frame. I reinstalled the sector gear/shaft into the box. In the new location it was not possible to get the gear box into place with the engine installed so it was removed. At this point I know the box fits so there’s no need to have the engine in the way, anyhow.









As installed, the steering shaft was not centered relative to the original column bracket so the flange on the sector housing that bolts to the frame was carefully ground until the shaft was centered. Be aware, a little grinding goes a long way!





To be continued…

 

PART 4

With the steering gear fit to the frame I fully disassembled and cleaned the steering gear. This includes media blasting, chasing all threads, checking all mating surfaces for flatness and touching up with a mill file as necessary.



With the steering gear moved rearward the shaft was too long and would have put the steering wheel in the drivers face. I cut the lower end of the shaft down of at 6”, milled a new key slot for the worm gear and turned down the first 2” slightly where the gear splines engage the shaft as original. I then pressed the worm gear on.





New bushings were installed in the sector housing and honed to fit the sector gear shaft. At the outer flange a bore was machined for a modern lip seal.





David will not be using a stock 30’s light switch at the bottom of the gear as he has a 1940 steering wheel but he still needs to be able to run a horn wire down the steering shaft and out of the bottom. I made a new 1/4” thick lower seal plate and soldered in a brass tube that reaches up into the shaft above the oil level like Ford did.



1932 pitman arms don’t grow on trees but 1937-1940 arms are nearly identical length and can be modified to work. The only real difference in the end will be that the drag link will install from the outside rather than the backside as a 32 does.

The lower end of the arm was warmed up and twisted slightly like a 32.



To allow the arm to install vertically the 4 alignment flats in the gear end need to be filed into splines using a triangle file of the appropriate size. This way the arm can be clocked as needed to be vertical when installed with the steering gear on center.





At this point all of the prep work was finished and the steering gear was assembled and adjusted.







With the steering gear finished it was painted and final installed when dry.





To be continued…

 

Very nice work.

 

You mentioned the drag link coming into the pitman from the outside, unlike a 32. Why don’t you just taper the end of the pitman half way from the inside so you can insert the ball inside? I’ve done it to pitman arms and spindle arms, and never had one come loose yet.

 

That’s a good point. I most certainly could have but it didn’t occur to me. Having the drag link install on the outside won’t affect steering function. The only real negative is a slight loss in turning before the tire might contact the link.

That said, I do have a taper cutter for my mill and have done steering arms a number of times. Totally legit modification.

 

On my 32 I have the drag link on the inside of the pitman and I still rub it sometimes.

 

Very common. Most of the time because of using a dropped axle which will be narrower than stock some amount (both in the case of dropped original or aftermarket, most common 48” compared to 50.5” stock 1932-1936) combined with tire diameter.

 

Yep and yep. Axle narrowed up a little when dropped, and using 18” wheels.

 

PART 5

With the finished steering gear installed I measured for and built a new, adjustable drag link in Model A to 1934 tie rod style.







David already had an original 1940 steering wheel that he wanted to use but had no column tube. I showed him that he needed to find one from a 1940-1941 Pickup because they have the bell on the end to match up with the wheel but no column shift. I found David a tube for sale on Instagram and he quickly bought it and had it shipped to the shop. The tube also had the column bracket on it and after removing it I found the tube to be cracked and damaged underneath.





The bottom end of the tube was also dented pretty good where it would be shown below the 1940 firewall. As luck would have it, I had a 1932 column tube that the bottom 2/3 was perfect while the upper 1/3 was beat up so out of the two tubes I was able to make one nice, dent free tube. The two tubes sections were clamped in a heavy piece of angle iron and TIG welded together. This worked out great because it eliminates the holes in the tube where the column bracket was that would have been left behind.









With the steering fabrication completed I filled the gear box with Penrite steering gear grease and took it for a test run.



To be continued…

 

Nice save on the damaged steering column.

 

looking good Dennis!

clean work as always.

 

PART 6

With the steering gear and column finished I could turn my attention to fitting the brake and clutch pedal assembly. Like the K-member, the pedals are also 1932. I started by offering them up as-is and found what I was expecting, that they are a bit too tall to fit under the bottom edge of the firewall. Their original shape also doesn’t clear the engine quite right or the steering box thanks to it being move rearward.







I have been in this situation before when building a 1927 T Roadster on a 32 chassis for myself so I knew how to approach it. I made some shape templates out of heavy welding rod to follow then heated and reshaped the pedal arms with my trusty rosebud torch. I didn’t get pictures of that process but here is the end result. The pedals now fit perfectly around the steering, firewall and engine. After confirming the fit I rebuilt them with fresh bushings honed to fit the extended shaft in my 32 hydraulic conversion kit.











It was necessary on the bottom flange of the body to slice off a narrow wedge of material that slightly overhung the inside edge of the frame so that the clutch pedal didn’t scrape along it. Ultimately, the body block that goes here will need to be trimmed to match.



Happy with the fit, the pedals and related hardware were painted, final assembled and installed along with my 32 hydraulic conversion kit lever and pushrod. I also installed 32 pedal return springs and restore the clutch linkage. The only thing missing is the correct 32 clutch release lever (in the pictures is the original 39 lever that came on the transmission) which I told David he will need to find and change out. I made some temporary pedal stops to emulate the floorboard and installed brand new 32 pedal pads.







I didn’t get pictures that clearly show my 32 hydraulic kit lever and pushrod installed on this project so below are these components as installed on my own 32 Pickup.





Below are a couple of quick video clips showing the brake and clutch pedals in operation.





And that is the conclusion of this project. When David’s A-V8 chassis came in it was barely a roller with no brake system (other than bare backing plates mounted) and no steering system. Now, it has a complete, ready to bleed and run brake system and complete, ready to run steering system. I had a lot of fun with this job and David was a please to do work with, not to mention already being a friend and fellow Pasadena Roadster Club member. I hope I get to help him more with this project in the future.

I’ll also add that (IMO) using a 32 K-member to build a traditional A-V8 chassis is definitely the way to go whenever possible. By doing that then everything 32 can be used around it, greatly simplifying the project. The K-member also adds significant structure, something these A frames desperately need.

 

I have a k member in my 31 roadster. Use the 32 pedal box but then use 34 pedals. They fit like they belong there. Saves all that time reworking 32 pedals.

 

Very nice. I have experimented with that combination before but from the looks of it the 32 pedal arms would not be an issue in regards to the bottom of the firewall? You’ve got a huge gap between the pedals firewall. There’s a lot less room to work with on a 28/29 like I was dealing with.

Also, a 33/34 brake pedal will not work with the lever in my hydraulic conversion kit (at least not without modifications) so reshaping the pedal arms was the best option in my situation.

 

Yea photos dont always give a clear picture. I tried 32 pedals and they were too long, that's why I used 34's. Plus I'm still running mechanical brakes and they bolted right up.