As one of many in this group who are aging in the hobby a recent medical incident has brought up a question. I recently went through a major heart incident and the end result is the installation of a pacemaker. All the internet info and suggestions from the medical field say that those of us in this predicament can no longer use any kind of welder whether arc, mig or tig. As we all know you don't need a welder to buy a car but you sure need one to build it. I'd like to hear from those in our group with actual experience with this situation. Thanks
There are a number of articles about this subject. Many say "don't" and many more suggest how to weld safely when you have a pacemaker. Almost all say to keep your welding to under 120 amps. https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=2c52...LXlvdXItcGFjZW1ha2VyLXdoZW4td2VsZGluZy8&ntb=1 There is a suggestion from Lincoln advising welders to run your electrode cable and ground cable together and tied with zip ties so that the person doing the welding can't get between the two. There is a magnetic field created when the cables are separated. That is what would damage your pacemaker.
My dad went through this predicament with his ICD (internal defibrillator), which doesn't function the same as a pacemaker but is impacted by welding concerns in similar ways. Originally his doctor said no electric arc welding at all. After less than 1 year he ended up with a doctor that said "yes, but". The parameters he gave him were: always wear leather welding gloves, keep it below a certain amp setting (I don't recall off hand), keep the gun and cable away from your chest, and monitor how you're feeling. I believe there were certain types of welding he recommended against, as well. My dad has been safely welding for several years now without issue. Keep asking doctors you see, and hopefully you'll get safe parameters for welding with your pacemaker.
I am amazed at some of the things that I hear from doctors. Most times with things like this they have no more information than you do and since they can't say "I don't know" they default to "out of an abundance of caution." The world that we live in is full of electromagnetic radiation it becomes a question of at what level is it a problem for the device in question. I would think that the manufacturer and the regulatory agencies would have that information. If I remember correctly there used to be warnings on microwave ovens over this very thing, I haven't seen that label for some time now and I don't think the radiation levels have changed. End rant.
There are a couple different pacemakers or maybe I should say pacemakers that do different things. Some go off if your heart goes out of rhythm or stops and some control your heart beats entirely replacing the heart’s control completely, me personally I wouldn’t fuck around with the second one. If you shouldn’t weld don’t weld. I was a candidate for the second one a few years back and I got a second opinion and the new doctor has kept me off of any pacemaker in fact in over three years I haven’t had any issues with my heart.
I would check with your cardiologist. When I had my procedure done I showed my Doctor the manuals for my welders and he wasn't too concerned about MIG welding as long as I was wearing full leathers. but told me that he would not recommend TIG welding, especially AC high frequency aluminum welding. He did say that if at all I could avoid it that I should not weld. I haven't welded since and leave it to my son.
Your doctor should be able to put you in contact with the pacemaker company rep who can answer your questions. The technology has been changing, now there are even MRI compatible units. The biggest concern is why you have it and are you dependent on it pacing. I have one based on an incident I had 15 years ago, it’s rare that it paces so not to concerned. They are also data collectors they track your heart rate which they can read or download. I use my mig and plasma cutter. Base your decision on the doctor and the rep.
Just read the response from Woody Wagon. So many different opinions? I started a thread about this 5-6 years ago on the HAMB and Ford Barn. I've had a combo defibrillator/pacemaker for over 5+ years. I found the cardio guys and devise manufacturers are normally in a Cover Their Ass mode. I was still building 20-25 customer chassis a year and wasn't ready to quit. The cardio doctor that installed my devise said he had several patients who were still welding. He advised to forgo using my Mig and Plasma but I could Tig weld as long as I set the amps no higher than 160. I remember when the recovery period had passed asking my wife to come out to the shop as I was going to give it a try. She stood by the phone to call 911 in case the experiment went wrong. I gathered some scrap, set the welder at 160 and proceed to run several lines of weld with no ill effects. I've been Tig welding ever since. I'm chicken to try my Mig although a couple guys with devises that I know are using their smaller 110 gas Mig's with no problems. I've never tried the Plasma, I sure could use it from time to time. I miss the Mig the most when fabricating exhaust as it's tough to hold the pipes and use the TIG. I will be getting a newer model devise in Jan as my current one is running out of juice, we'll see what they say then?
After retiring, I went to work in a chassis shop. Shortly after going to work there, the owner ended up with a pacemaker. He was the main welder in the shop. He still did gas welding but MIG and TIG was done by someone else. He would not quit using the micro wave for his lunch. He died a couple of years ago. Stay away from the MIG and TIG and the Micro wave. Good luck. Hope you make it through ok !!!
I'm just relating my experience for your information, I don't know enough to have a valid opinion on this, but it is significant to me because I have had open heart surgery with five bypasses (no implant devices though): I installed several 220 lines in my workshop for a TIG, welder, MIG welder, and Plasma cutter. The circuit breaker box is in the workshop. On the other side of the wall is the family room with a gas fireplace operated by a an electronic controller module, it also uses that circuit breaker box. When I used the TIG welder and I noticed an odd noise. Tried to track it down and come to the conclusion it was the welder. Later that day my wife informed me that the fireplace was not working (fairly new install). Turned out the controller module in the fireplace was no longer functional (odd since it was fairly new). Further investigation revealed that on the 220 line to the TIG welder, the ground wire (not the low) in the breaker box was not fully tightened. Once I tightened it all the way, no more noise, and replaced the controller module in the fireplace. Never failed again. As I said, I'm not an expert on this subject, but I only relate this experience to underline the need to be careful, sometimes unintended circumstances can cause a problems. NOTE: never told wife about the loose ground, just said the controller module was defective (it happens). don
I'm no expert, so I can't give advice. In my case I'm paced 99% of the time, so I have to be careful. Doc said, No cell phone in the shirt pocket. I dug out my Boy Scout compass to see. Yup. There is a magnetic field around the phone, whether it is on or off. However, when I asked him if I could go visit the giant generators at the Hoover Dam, he thought it was no problem. ????? So, keep researching. Keep asking questions. Try to separate out opinions. Try to get the facts that apply to your situation.
31Apickup If you contact the maker of a pacemaker I'm sure they would cover their butt and tell you not to weld. In this age of lawsuits they will do anything and everything to protect themselves. What we need on this site is a cool, knowledgeable, street rodder doctor to give us the straight scoop and what he would recommend! I'm sure that if he did not know the answers he could communicate with a heart doc colleague and explain exactly what MIG, TIG and arc welding is and get an answer.
Yes, they do default to being cautious. However with welding the danger for these devices isn't anything to do with radiation. Operation of things like welders, working on ignition systems on a running vehicle, etc., can impact the electric signals in our bodies. For most of us it doesn't matter, but when you have an implanted device that is reading those signals (ICD, pacemaker), it can cause the device to function in an unexpected manner or fail altogether. That's the reason for wearing gloves while welding, keeping the cables and torch away from your chest, keeping amperage below a limit, etc. Insulation against those currents is what protects your device and you when electric arc welding. Those aren't both pacemakers. The first one you described is an ICD. The second is a pacemaker.
You're not going to find a cut and dry answer to this question. I have a really messed up heart condition called Cardiac Sarcoidosis, I've been 100% paced with a pacer/defib unit for over 10 yrs now, I have no heartbeat without it. This disease has a very very high mortality rate and they gave me at most 5 yrs but it could happen at any time, a great way to live life. Back to the question, I too am a builder and the thought of not welding drove me crazy. I asked all the questions to the doctors and online forums, read the pacer do's and don't booklet 10,000 times, arc welding was right in the booklet but nothing concerning mig. A little over a year in I decided to try it, now I had been effected in the past by a variable speed drill so I knew the symptoms of that and used that as something to judge by. I called a friend to come over, gave him my pacer card with all the info on it, told him to call 911 but it really wouldn't matter since if the pacer got damaged I wouldn't have a heartbeat anyways. I extended the cables as far away as possible to get the machine away, was pretty far back from the welding surface, not straddling the cables and gave it a tack, nothing happened. Over time I progressively welded more and more pieces to the point I don't much hesitate about it any longer. I used to have to go in every few weeks to get the pacer downloaded so they could evaluate my condition, a couple times they ask what I was doing on a certain date at a certain time. For the past 1 1/2 - 2 years I've had a home monitor that downloads the pacer info nightly and sends it off to Washington DC, so far so good and nothing really has been said. My most recent pacemaker clinic office visit she ask what the discoloration was on my inner legs, I blurt out "oh, I was welding with shorts on and got flash burned". She immediately asked what kind of welding, I said don't worry it was mig, not arc or tig, then I ask if something was showing up and she said no. So it's something you'll have to use your own judgment and what makes you comfortable. If it's a pacer that just corrects your rhythm once a year or two I wouldn't worry to much about it, if you're like me and it controls the full function then it's something to think about.
I don't know about pacemakers but, I worked at a shop that did aluminum block and head repairs, when the frequency and amps were up, it would scramble the PC and phone system. From across the room. Not only would I not do A/C HF TIG, I wouldn't go around A/C HF TIG being done. Mike
I was only going off what the first doctor referred to them as, in retrospect I was never very impressed with him he left the hospital in Iowa City for the Heart Center in Mason City it always seemed like a reverse career move to me. I was recovering from covid and he couldn’t get my pulse under control and he was the doctor in the office for that. The next doctor I was handed off to had everything under control in two weeks something the Iowa City doctor couldn’t do in five months.
That's just for impact protection nothing to with electrical signals, that would be good for my racing harness though, since it directly goes over my pacer.
I spoke directly to the rep, he said it was no problem with mig, it may be an issue with high frequency machines such as tig. The rep I deal with is pretty knowledgeable. Do not put a cable over your shoulder and keep electric devices out of your shirt pockets. If welding, Said to stop if you start feeling anything odd to stop and contact your doctor. If you are dependent on it pacing, the concern is creating a frequency that the pacemaker picks up so it doesn’t pace and then you have problems. Microwave ovens are not an issue for modern pacemakers that was based on the old technology. I just had mine replaced last January at 15 years which is pretty old but again I’m not dependent on it.
I am a recipient of a pacemaker/difibulater. Four years now. The Dr. who installed the device said NO welding ! The "NOISE" generated by the welding process bothers the device. Trying to back door the Dr., I asked the tech who checks the device every 6 months, she says, OK IF- wear leathers, keep amperage 140 or less. I have done a bit of tig and a bit of mig, still kicking, but wary.
And the title of the one that graduated at the very bottom ... Doctor Wife's grandmother had a pacemaker installed. Apparently there were two wires involved in the install. She didn't feel quite right after the installation. She returned to the hospital to be told the installer had swapped the two wires by mistake. True story as it was told to me.
Make yourself a Faraday suit. Like a tinfoil hat, but everywhere. Electrically conductive, all pieces connected. Connect to ground for an extra measure. No electromagnetic waves can get in or out. Just make sure you aren't the shortest path for the welding arc.
Just a sideways thought. I wonder if the Boston Science Museum would be out of limits, as they have the world’s largest Van de Graf generator and run it daily. Impressive show. On dry days it approaches 1 million volts!
Sorry to hear about your trouble dad and I were just talking about you and the "They showed up in a F-CKing Dodge story." I have known a couple guys with Pacemakers. My older cousin has a Pacemaker, and he has been told he can't weld at all, but the doctors also told him he couldn't race or even set the timing on his racecar because of the H.E.I. ignition which was false. The H.E.I. has no effect. I also knew an old-time stockcar racer turned oval track racer restorer (Vintage midgets, sprints, and Champ Cars mostly) who had a Pacemaker. He told me he couldn't do aluninum T.I.G. (AC high frequency) but still did steel T.I.G (electrode negative) and M.I.G. but wasn't supposed to. In his words while lighting a cigarette "If you listen to the damn doctors you're going to die!" Now I don't know if you or I should follow his example, but I will say he lived another 10 years or more after his surgery and died well in his 80s!
If you want to know what you can and can't do while having a pacemaker, look up the information from your specific pacemaker manufacturer. Your doctor probably doesn't know any more than you and just passes on what he reads in the instructions plus errors on the safe side to help protect against legal liability. Ever notice while going to the hospital, the hospital workers smoking outside in the smoking area. I bet everyone will tell you not to smoke while inside doing their job.
There is welding completely without electricity = without interference that may affect electronics. It's actually very traditional.
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