Hi, folks. I converted my 40 axle for my 27 T to open drive shaft. Now that the tube is gone I need to attach the wishbones to the frame. How did you guys solve the problem? Any pics? I want to keep them in triangle shape. Did you use any rod bearings? Thanks in advance!
Thing to watch is that no matter how you do the front; '40 rear bones are weak and will eventually break at the rear forging without additional strengthening.
Cruiserbuddy: You need to install a torque arm kit. It reduces the stress on the original rear wish bones so they don't fatigue and break. 1935-1940 Ford Torque Arm kit Here's a lot more valuable info. Swapped torque tube for open driveshaft need a solution for radius arms - The Ford Barn and Search Results for Query: torque arm kit | The H.A.M.B.
You will need to fabricate what 19Fordy mentioned - a "torque arm" that takes the twist load off of the wishbones. There are many ways to make them ---> but all will need a solid mount (1 or more) at the rear end, and an articulating joint that is forward - hopefully running in the same arc as your radius rods (as obviously they need to articulate as well). One thing to note is that if you start welding on the rear housing, then you run the risk of warping the housing and then making the rear wheel bearings out of alignment with the centerline of the rear. Once welding is done, the alignment needs to be checked with an alignment bar and the housing will usually need straightening.
Hoping to not hijack or derail the OP's thread; but... Are there alignment pucks and bars for a stock banjo? I've seen bars used when late model ends were added; but on a stock axle I would think the bar would have to be fairly small in diameter to pass thru the axle bores and wondering how it would register on the outer housing ends.
Rich: One would have to make a bar setup - which I've not done for original tapered-axle ends, but have done for a Quickchange and 9" Ford ends. Given the ID of the outer bearing areas, I'd probably make an alignment bar that was thicker through the center of the unit and was "turned down" on the ends to get through the bearing areas. One would also have to make "bar ends" or pucks to slide over the outer bar ends to check alignment with . . . and probably a way to easily attach a dial indicator. Note: The problem of warpage tends to happen the most when you only weld on one-side of the tubes -- like parallel spring hanger pads. It is amazing how much the tube will "move" toward the weld. One can use a variety of methods to straighten the housing - including heat-shrinking, press-work, rewelding the ends on, etc.. The warpage/alignment issue is one of the reasons that when you're ordering a bare housing (think 9" Ford), you should order it without the ends welded on. After you've welded all your trailing arm brackets, shock mounts, etc - onto the housing, then you put an alignment bar through it with "pucks" to pickup the carrier bearing locations and outer wheel bearings and weld the bearing ends on LAST. I'd start with a precision ground bar to start with (as I did on my alignment bar): https://www.mcmaster.com/products/s...ce-low-carbon-steel-rods/?s=ground+steel+rods
B and S: THANK YOU for the torque arm alignment info. It's easy to for forget that welding causes warpage.
No problem! Even when you only weld 1" welds at a time and alternate back and forth, it is amazing how much a tube can move on you.
Try to find @NealinCA's '32 Roadster Pick-up build thread from about 10 years ago. He did a beautiful job with converting a closed drive banjo rear into open drive and used a third radius rod (if my memory serves me correctly) as the torque rod. Like most of the things he does, it looked almost stock when he was done. It think once you see what he did, it will make a lot of sense. The build thread is great with tons of pictures and excellent explanations.
These guys make a setup to use when you convert to open drive shaft. I would still stitch weld the radius rods and tie them in. Warren https://www.modela5conv.com/parts.html#/
Sooo many different ways, hit the search on here. You can go with a front ball and cup welded in, a single Johnny Joint, tie rod ends or heim joints. But you do need to make some sort of torque setup, there's a lot of ideas on here also for that. Here's a shot of my '28 with a banjo setup.
This is interesting. I will have to look at mine. I bought it this way, with a ‘40 banjo and open driveshaft.
It looks like the way those are installed will cause the rear suspension to bind. The top bar pivot point should be on the same line as the front radius rod mount. Try disconnecting the spring and move the rear end up and down and see what happens.
Yeah, Glen you just made a rigid truss. If the lower rear had flex at the rear connections it would be a four bar type suspension, but your solid rear wishbone connections make it not bouncable.
Here's the old build thread https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/32-rpu-build-thread-the-10-year-plan.642590/ And some of the pics. I used the end of a Model T front axle along with a Model A wishbone to make the torque arm. This tied into the front of the rear "wishbone" that was made up of modified 36 rear forgings, 40 front wishbone tubes (because they are heavier wall) and a Model A wishbone yoke. Here's a shot of the chassis upside down...
Ah YES ...."THE SIMPLICITY OF THE BUGGY SPRING SUSPENSION"! You almost couldn't say it any more simplistically. But there are a lot of "modifiers" in our ranks that still do not understand the totality of that simplicity. There are two basic elements that must be remembered when evaluating just how Henry's "buggy sprung, torque tube system" actually works, and what is required to remain fully, and safely functional. The first element of the system is that the whole rear end/torque tube assembly articulates about TWO points in two dimensions. The assembly is able to ROLL about the longitudinal axis defined by the point in the center of the rear cross-member where the buggy spring is securely clamped, in addition to the front end of the torque tube assembly joint approximating a point slightly in front of the torque tube bell, essentially in line with the center of the U-joint. The REAR end of the whole assembly is able to move up and down in a PITCHING motion via buggy spring action and constraint, about the same point at the front end of the torque tube and center of Ujoint as discussed above. The 'captured ball' surrounding the U-joint at the front end of torque tube serves to anchor-securely that end of the torque tube, yet allowing full articulation about that point in the center of the U-joint. The SECOND element that is often overlooked is that the TORQUE TUBE is the member which transmits the driving force that moves the vehicle forward, or rearward in the case of reverse. The torque tube actually pushes the vehicle forward, and pulls the vehicle in reverse. The torque tube is also the member that resists any control over the rear axle housing's propensity to twist upward at the front while transmitting torque to drive the vehicle FORWARD. While driving the vehicle in reverse, the axle housing tries to twist downward in the front. This "torque-induced" movement is normally contained and controlled by the torque tube. Once the torque tube is eliminated, as in an 'open-drive-conversion', those two radius rods (formed from rolled sheet-metal) now have their work cut-out for them trying to control the TORQUE-rolling of the rear axle assembly. You've gotta remember that these two wimpy rods are now what is left to PUSH the vehicle forward, or pull it rearward as in REVERSE. And if you 'GET-onit' hard, all bets are off! Those radius rods can fold-up like spaghetti. They were originally designed ONLY as a means of reinforcement for keeping the TORQUE TUBE at an angle of 90º to the banjo housing, via simple triangulation. Many times when modifying an old Ford's torque tube system to subsequently perform "open-drive" duty, some of these elements are overlooked, or even totally mis-understood. If the modified system overlooks any element of the original design, the vehicle will likely drive like crap, especially when traversing odd changes in road height, like driveway entrances, and pot holes. And heavy acceleration can be especially destructive if rear axle torque is not adequately controlled by substantial members specifically designed for that function. The entire rear end suspension must function in it's entire range of movement just as well as a stock torque tube rear end. One more thing usually seen during these modifications is radius rods being "split", spread-out, and anchored to a frame rail by a bracket of some kind. In a case like this, whenever the rear end (or front axle) is raised or lowered at one end, as if you drove one rear wheel into a deep pot hole, anything that causes the rear end (or front axle) to ROLL in alignment with the longitudinal axis of the vehicle, you are actually TWISTING those radius rods. They are only going to 'TWIST' so many cycles before they break or fracture at a mounting point, or anywehere along their length. This does not occur when the radius rod is mounted to the torque tube. NO COMPONENT gets twisted with the normal movements in a torque tube rear end assembly. If you don't understand ANY of the above, trying to SUCCESSFULLY MODIFY a torque tube system to function properly is likely not going to end well. DD (Dick Davis - Coopman)
Different bolts then stock and that was the setup with the 4 cylinder. Just using it as a reference for a torque arm. The V8 setup is different.
Also, keep in mind that the banjo bolts have an interference fit that prevent leakage. Don't clean them out with a tap. I wonder if there would be any warpage if you welded the torque arm bracket to the side or top of the banjo case?
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