Bringing an F100 Back from the Dead

Would an earlier version of the Ford distributor work?
One with electronic ignition but mechanical advance, from early 1980's?

Or somewhere in between.

I can understand the difficulty of having an ignition module computer and the efi computer not holding hands nicely.

 

I have exp. with tfi modules. Not knowing what you are using will make my input somewhat vague. The basis of my exp. has been that the original Motorcraft units are the best. I went through several of the newer units and couldn't find a good unit. If you take them to a tester where they connect to a unit and press a button to test, it has to be done many times to create some heat in the unit. The heat has a great deal to do with failure. If your unit isn't 100%, then you will not get the terminator to be effective. Holley sells a unit that is directly meant for the Ford with tfi so they should have adequate info to tell you where to look. It's been several years since I did this but by using only a couple of the outputs on the tfi, you have a stand lone ignition system connected to the coil but no timing control. If you reach the point of having enough of the tfi, you can use the dist, pickup to fire a cd box I believe such as a MSD or similar. I think the pickup is the same function as the older duraspark units. I'm using my not reliable memory for some of this so take it as such. The output that would go to the spout connector on an eec iv wiring is the one that controls timing through the ecu. If you haven't spent time on the Holley forums, I suggest you go and look around. There is some very knowledgeable people there. When you're learning new stuff, it takes time to absorb what is happening and then get an overview of where to go next. I don't know about you but age has made me think way more than I used to. If you're not satisfied, why would you quit????

 

Thanks @wfo guy
There is some very knowledgeable people on the Holley EFI FB groups, and I have been getting flooded with idears....mostly about how it make it more complicated, as well as help me spend more money.
But, because of that, I have some things to try. It's funny you mentioned the aftermarket units vs the Motorcraft units. I bought a Cardone distributor for a 1990. As you can see, it has the module attached to the body of the distributor. The supplied module had cross fire, erratic timing....just wasn't working. My son, who set up the wiring harness and got 'er up and running said it was probably the module, and he picked up a genuine Motorcraft module. Fired right up and ran smooth. At first it showed no timing advance at all. A couple changes to the settings, and it was working normally. Or so it seemed. It was pinging in the low vacuum/high load zones, so we turned the timing down a bit. Later after turning the timing down in the ECU to the point it should have had no more than 25° did I discover that it was still seeing 40° actual timing. I filled the entire table to 12° and then checked actual timing. It should not have seen any advance at all. But yet it did! Idling at the 12° setting but getting to 30° or thereabouts total.
So now, I have that same 12° table with just a little additional timing in the table in high vacuum/ low load areas. And it works. Now it sees about 35° in the "cruise" area. It runs nice. It seems the is either built advance in the TFI unit, or it's getting a timing input somewhere, somehow through the ECU. I have a another round of things to try before I either learn to live with the ECU just adding X amount of advance to that which is already there, or as you suggested, ditch the TFI module in favor of an external CD box. Whew!
I think life was easier when I could either just twist the distributor this way or that, and change springs, weights, or advance slots to tailor the timing the old fashioned way!
Aren't modern electronic great?

 

It looks like the solution in the event that I can't live with the way it is, is to ditch the TFI module, and run an external CD box, using the distributors shutter wheel as a trigger. I'm hoping to solve this in the software so I don't have to tear into my son's exceptional wiring all nice and tidy), and of course avoid spending money unnecessarily!

 

At the risk of being stupid, is there something in the timing area of the software that specifies how many cylinders the engine has??? If it's of any help, on the oem app of the tfi, you disconnect the spout and set the base at however many degrees you want. 10-12??? When you reconnect the 3rd wire, the ecu takes over. I seem to remember around 20 degrees at idle but I may be way off.
Another thought: does the timing chart not include your base timing so the base and the included would give you the amount observed but not desired????

 

I brought up the spout wire to my son, who has a far far better understanding of than i do. But in the software, there is a set up box to enable static timing. I did that this morning, and at idle it was 12°, which is what I set static timing to. It had 12° at idle alright. But the timing still advances. Then there is a "crank sensor" value. Supposedly, the amount of the value there can either advance or retard timing. I tried a bunch of different values, and it still advances.
So, that's all I can do. He's gonna research the spout wire connection and come over and change how it connects.
I wish I had taken the time to learn this stuff years ago. My original plan was to keep this old school with a carb and conventional ignition. My son convinced me this would be the way to go. So, I'll let him figure it out, and maybe we can bith learn something.

 

On the timing table in the software, I got it to the point that it sorta behaves. I set the entire table to 12°. Logic dictates it should stayed at that value, but it does not.
Seems like a matter of the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.
Some Holley experts say the the Terminator doesn't really support six cylinder TFI. Only V8.

 

Rip it out !! RIP it ALL out !! (you won't be the first ...or last to say "Gimme a carb and distributor with weights and sprangs and jets ...take all this modern junk and put it on your LS stuff !")
You woulda been driving 'old Furd' 3 months ago
6sally6

 

Lol. Let's not get carried away just yet. It runs and drives very nicely. It's just that the actual timing and what the ECU says it is, aren't the same.
This EFI system has some very desirable qualities aside from that.

 

I'm sure you have thought of this but you could put the old dist. back in and get the rest of it where it's got the right a/f and then reinstall it. Many times, one problem masks the other. I know you have plenty of exp. and you'll come up with an answer.

 

A little update on the whole Holley Terminator vs. Ford TFI issue....
It seems that the Holley ECU does not recognize the Ford TFI in 6 cylinder form. Apparently some sort of "handshake" is required, but one side, or maybe both, won't do that. So, no timing control.

It runs pretty nice as is. But, (big hairy but) there's just too much advance in the high load/low vacuum areas one would encounter, such as hill climbing. The obvious solution would be to back the timing up. But then idle advance and around town, plus flat highway driving take the hit on efficiency.

The solution, at least I hope, is a coil driver for a single coil, which would by-pass the TFI module. A place called DIY AutoTune has this coil driver, actually made in the US.

I can pretend I know what this is all about. But that would be just that. Pretending. My son, who does this stuff for a living has researched this, and will do the wiring an initial set-up. He says we WILL get timing control. Hopefully that is the case.

Once we have control, I can tailor the timing events to drop timing out in the "Ping Zone" while keeping it where it likes to be in the other areas. That part is something I can do my own dang self.

But, just in case, I was able to find a rebuilt single point distributor. I will put that in my "Road Trip Box" so in the unlikely event of a failure somewhere deep in BFE, I can get going again.

 

Finally a solution on the whole Holley EFI/Ford TFI episode! My son came up with, and found the single channel coil driver module. He came by last weekend and wired it into the system. The kid (42yo) really knows his stuff! Very little intrusion into the existing wiring harness, and it looks as neat and tidy as it did before. The existing TFI module on the side of the distributor is still there and acts only as a convenience connector to the pick-up module inside the distributor.
After getting it wired up, the Ol' Furd fired right up, and we went through a few steps to get the actual timing sync'd with the ECU. I now have timing control!
Took 'er out for a ride in the Sierra foothills the other day, and put 'er through different scenarios, with wifey writing down info the old fashion way. I coulda done a datalog, but this way was easier for this old coot.
The most heinous test was lugging 'er up a 12% grade at 45mph in 4th gear. She didn't like that much and there was just barely audible pinging, 1500 rpm, 27° timing and 95Kpa manifold pressure. That is akin to about 2 or 3 inches of vacuum. I certainly won't intentionally do that again, but it is comforting to know the limits anyway!
That wraps that project up, except for fine tuning. So, bring on some road trips!

 

So do I have this correct: The dist. pickup sends the signal to the Amp in analog form which sends it to the ecu which sends it to the coil at the correct time?

 

The distributor pickup goes to the ecu, the spark out wire goes to the Amp, which fires the coil. Petty simple. The box is small. About 4 x 1.5 inches

 

Kudos Mikey.
By Golly, you said you and your son were going to get to the botttom of your spark control issues and you did.

 

Thanks!
It was due to my son's efforts that this got sorted. He has much more EFI experience than I. But along that same line, it was he that steered me down this crooked and winding road too. Had there not been supply chain issues during covid, the Ol Furd would have been carb'd.
Thanks to all that had comments and suggestions. It's always great bouncing ideas off others.
Let the road tripping begin!