Technical The making tube headers thread

No disrespect to some who have posted but I think there is 2 different train of thoughts going on here.

1. Is the average hot rodder who may build a total of 2 sets of headers their entire lives.

AND

2. Those that build things like this for a living. Maybe not day-in-day-out but maybe a couple sets a year AND get paid to do so.

Now I've thought about building my own but not going to spend 8,000 dollars for a saw to cut the pipe with nor give several hundred plus for a set of lego's to design with etc.

And sure maybe I can sell the tooling later to recoup costs but how long will I have to set on it before it sells or how much of a hit in price to sell it ?

Sounds to me that the OP has only 1 set in mind to build and spending several thousand dollars to build 1 set sounds like a major waste of funding to me, instead of a expensive high dollar saw (etc) sitting in the corner collecting dust that money instead could fund the complete rear end assembly complete with posi etc.

Now again no disrespect aimed at ANYONE just an observation and I do appreciate the info, tips etc from all....


...

 

I wanted an Ellis saw after seeing them at my friends' shops, just couldn't pull the trigger. I'd love to have it sitting in the corner collecting dust.

 

When I built my first set for a weird application, I bought a BBC weld up kit from Speedway with a few extra J bends and made my own 3/8" Pontiac flanges by copying a ram air manifold gasket. Cut tubes with a hacksaw, tuned the fit with a flap wheel on and angle grinder and gas welded everything. Even sold the unused BBC flanges to cut down on my expense. Didn't have much $ into them at all.

And yes people doubted the forward facing headers. But they cleared everything they had to that way and the engine doesn't know any better.

 

Here's how I made the fender-exit headers for my A. I'm an amateur hack with a MIG welder and mild steel tubing..

Prototype #1 was ultra-traditional coat hangers & bricks:
Prototype #2 was 1/4" steel rods with 2.5" radius.

Headers themselves consisted of 5/16" thick flanges from "Headers by Ed", 3.5"x10" collectors, and 16 gauge, 1 5/8" primary tubes with 2.5" radius mandrel bends, from Summit.

More pics here:
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/introducing-my-fuel-coupe-styled-tudor.132127/page-7

 

Very well done.

 

No hackery there, great job Gary!

 

I really like the hose clamp idea. Is there a matching hole 180 degrees apart?

 

GREAT tip on the nerfs!

 

I agree 100%! Thank you for bringing that out...

 

I found this series very helpful when building headers

 

3 holes normally! The safest way I have found to drill the holes is to put the clamp on some scrap tube and use a step drill.

 

I believe you're referring to "chill rings". They are made in several sizes and thicknesses and if called for, they are sometime used as backup for the root pass in a pipe or tube weld.

 

Looks like what I recall being posted at one time.
Thanks

 

No offense taken here. I do understand watching the budget and trust me my saw was not bought just to build headers. Custom Headers are just a very small part of what I've built over the years. In fact, most of my work is O.T. here. I just like coming back to where it all started for me and seeing how the Young Blood is dealing with the renderings.
Maybe my post should have been put under Tips and Tricks. It was more about the modification to the saw to start with thinking the guys with smaller drop arm units gathering dust could give them a Tune Up to make things easier.
I know I don't communicate very well and why I never give advice or tell, How-To anything.

 

Thanks for the tips! Any more info on the blades?

 

For easy back purging you can use one of these dual output regulators.

https://www.amazon.com/YESWELDER-Ou...cphy=9017774&hvtargid=pla-1946532436298&psc=1

 

Sure, when I get out to the Shop, I'll pull up the order sheet for the blades. I know they are Bi-metal and very tooth but don't remember the exact tooth counts.

 

I love technology, don't get me wrong. My Step-Dad had a welding shop on the farm when I was a kid. I learned most of what I know today from "cut-n-try", working on farm stuff. When I got into cars and fast bikes I left the farm, rolled up my sleeves and went to work.

I built some really fast bikes with some not so cool stuff. What I learned from that was, when building headers, all exhaust wants to do, is to get out, at the right time, the right velocity, and the right pressure. All of that is determined by a combination of pipe length, diameters, converging angles, sound waves, pulses, compression and cam timing.

Some of it didn't look so cool, but it worked really good. What mattered to me was if it went fast and set records! That's probably why I love my '32. It's very simple, kind of fast, but really cool!
Sorry if I got off topic a little...

 

This is what keeps us going. There truly is a science to Exhaust. You can make horsepower or kill horsepower in a set of headers. It's not all about looks. Sometimes confinement dictates but you need to know formulas to make the best of sometimes less than ideal conditions. Even placement of primary tubes into a collector plays a part.

 

Something I'm going to try is using some existing headers and seeing if some minor modification will make them work for my needs. I have a 500 Cad going in a 32 Ford. In buying a few engines, I got a new set of Sanderson headers thrown in one deal. They are not what I want. I also bought a couple of new LS Chevy headers that people bought and wanted to unload cheaply ($100-$150) and finally what I'll most likely use ........a new set of BB Chevy headers made for a Chevelle. Again purchased off Facebook unused and cheap. I chose them because a BB has a space between cylinders "almost" "similar" to a Cad.
Basically, I think I can cut the exhaust flange off and then simply spread the pipes slightly to equal a Cad's spacing.
A friend has made me a couple sets of exhaust flanges with his CNC Plasma cutter. They are thicker than normal. My plan is to use a milling machine to cut the face of the flange so that a step protrudes slightly.....kind of like what Sanderson does with their welds. The flanges will have a chamfer around where the tube sticks thru to allow some weld buildup and then either tacks or complete welds on the outer face of the flange. Probably going to make or buy some swedges to square the pipe ends where they go thru the flange. I figure I can also play with a set of the cheap LS headers as well, or cut them up to canibalize stuff. I also have a pipe expander that makes quick work of fitting pipes when needed. I'm waiting on a small expander die right now that I'm going to see if I can expand the metal tube in a water pump to make it match the tube on the radiator in my S10. Then I'll know if it will work for the radiator in the 32 as well.

 

That is what my friend did. He has an altered roadster drag car w/ a 460ish Ford V8. He uses BB Chevy roadster headers, cuts off the flanges, and welds the headers to 460 flanges.

 

two pies times ahh
1.75 inches in half is 7/8
we all know 7/8ths is 22.2mm

if two pies is 3.14 times two, then that is 6.28

so 6.28 times 22.2mm gives you 139.5
lets call it 140mm

so, if you do have elliptical ports or
losenge shapes, maybe you can using the confuser draw the losenge shape to have a path of 140mm
squeeze up the 1.75'' tube and wang them in ???

 

Confuser? You're making this too complicated. Unless you are going to do several sets of headers a tool is unnecessary IMO

Squeeze the primary tube in a vice so it will fit in the oval port. Put a couple of sturdy tacks on the primary to the flange. Use the ball end of the largest ballpeen hammer you have to work the primary tube into the oval flange. (I usually use the big hammer ball as a tool and hit it with another hammer) If you are using stainless tube, it will want to spring back and you may have to use some heat to get a good joint. Once you've got it fitting nicely, grind the tube flush to the flange and do a 'peanut' (autogenous) TIG weld at the joint. Braze the outside where the primary meets the flange and put in a nice fillet. Do this with the flange bolted to a scrap piece of steel (like a 6" piece of steel channel) and you'll have a pretty good chance of keeping it flat enough to seal.

You can MIG weld the primary on the engine side of the flange like "Just Gary" did in a previous post, but you'll need to 'blanchard grind' the surface to have any hope of sealing the flange to the engine. (I've had reasonable luck using a belt sander with a sanding surface about the length of the flange) I think this is how most of the mass-production headers are made.

 

A set of long-tube headers for an OT engine. Used lumber to get the correct orientation of the flange to the collector and started cutting tubes to connect them

Focus on fit-up - no lippage allowed! The steering shaft goes through the headers.

An ICE header lego kit was useful and can be resold after you're done with it for nearly what you pay.

 

I find this setup works great for headers as well as around use in the shop.
https://www.harborfreight.com/power...l-portable-band-saw-benchtop-stand-59640.html