Hot Rods Steering stabilizer vs pan hard bar...

Started noticing steering stabilizers on front ends vs pan hard bars... which works best and is stabilizers just as good??

 

Two different purposes.

 

Steering stabilizers are shocks mounted horizontally and connected to the frame and the steering to tame steering harmonics and other undesirable forces.

A panhard bar is a solid rod attached to the frame and the rear axle to locate the rear axle left and right relative to the chassis.

 

... and the square root is equal to the remaining side.

 

Oh...
And panhard is one word.
Named after the French gentleman who invented it.
Pronounced pan-ard.

 

Geometry and language lessons first thing in the morning.
I need a raise.

 

LOL... that will get people going...

 

I have 3 rpu... one with a stabilizer, one with a panhard, and one with none, the one with none does weird things on bumpy roads... the other 2 don't

 

Wait a minute.
A panhard bar on the front?
That would be used to counteract left to right deflection of the suspension from steering forces when using cross steering with transverse leaf suspension.

So if this is all to do with steering, you might want to take a look at threads with
"death wobble"
in the title.

Might want to take an aspirin first.

 

My opinion is a steering stabilizer is a bandaid fix for an axle not setup right. Never felt the need to put one on any solid axle install I built and they all have driven great without them.
A variety of things can cause issues that make people add a stabilizer instead of correcting the issues.
I've made panhard bars for chassis builds I did with coilovers in front to keep the axles located. That's all a panhard bar does is keep the axle located.

 

A steering damper/stabiliser can also be used to give some feel/weight to the steering.

I certainly noticed the difference on a certain OT German made insect car.

 

I put a dead perch on on side and it does drive with out any nasty things! In other words Perfectly!

 

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/dead-perch.1248864/

Another option


https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/dead-perch-which-side-for-a-cross-steer-model-a.983634/

 

Here you go Rick, this is the frame under my '32 pickup, notice I used a panhard bar, this truck drove like a dream.

And I agree with the fellow member that said a steering stabilizer is a band aid for improper setup. HRP

 

Now that's pretty slick and simple, and I might give that a try if I do another in the future!

 

Around this area steering stabalizers are usually associated more with the 4x4 brigade and at one time just about every old Jeep CJ had one. In truth they are just a shock absorber for the steering to keep things under control a bit better especially with rigs with fat tires.

 

You do good work, Rick.
Only thing you missed is that Panhard has a capital "P", seeing as it is the French dudes name.....

 

Only the one wed to doing the wrong thing.

 

Great reply! I'm always puzzled why people compare 4x4's to solid front axles on 2wd cars or trucks?

 

they all are band aids... just pick your flavor...dead perch, panhard, steering damper...they all still require the rest of the suspension to be in order...cross steer need something to limit side to side...I'ts my opinion that the dampener will do the job and be smoother kinda like rubber bushed compaired to heim joints... the dampner will adjust to the radius where as the other two won't , what your plans for the car in the begining will say what is better for you...there a lot of members here that push their way of doing things as the only way....

 

might as well add Parrell springs vs cross leaf

 

A Panhard rod is not a Band-Aid for anything, it's a necessity to keep the axle centered on certain types of suspension. They have nothing to do with the steering system.

The type of steering (cross vs side) doesn't dictate whether a Panhard rod is necessary either.

A damper will NOT do the job of a Panhard rod as it's not attached to the axle and frame. It's attached to the tie-rod and simply acts to dampen wheel oscillation on a poorly designed/set up front end.

Not to be a jerk, but your above statement is basically all wrong. If you dive deeper into the subject, I think you'll see what I'm saying.

 

I drove my 32 for 30 plus years with Mustang box steering from left wheel , no panhard bar needed . I added a steering stabilizer last year , why ? No idea , it has no bump steer and handled as on rails . My answer was try it and see if I could determine a difference . Nothing I could notice .

 

So the OP starts the thread asking what these parts are and do, and now preaches that they are all bandaids. Glad he learned so much in a day and we can forget all the facts we previously knew.

 

Hello,

When my wife and I purchased a project 327 powered 1940 Ford Sedan Delivery, it looked good, had all of the stuff we wanted and sounded nice. But, on the way homc, it started to handle weirdly. Instantly, I thought of unbalanced tires as it showed tendancies of an improperly balanced tire set up. The front was slightly lowered and the shocks, upon inspection were those old Houlidale versions.

So, I tried to do what we usually did to work on the problem(s). but, over the weeks coming, it was beyond my scope. I learned that the young guy that had been doing all of our front end alignments and any fix it problems was moving from west Los Angeles to the OC, near our apartment. Actually, it was about 10 miles away, but better than 45 miles to west Los Angeles.

When I took the sedan delivery to him, we drove it around for a while. He noticed things and did what he does when on a test drive. Now, he wanted to keep it for several days. He said the front end was all out of whack and the put together build was in need of repair/replace and re-tuning. So, we left it with him.

In the following weeks, he had the front tires shaved to round specs. The front suspension got a make-over and he did not repair, but replaced most of the joints, bushings, and components, including the Houlidale shocks. When asked if I needed a steering stabilizer, he chuckled and said that those items selling like hot cakes, were a boon to the parts businesses. Sure, they helped stabilize the front suspension, but it was still incorrectly built or out of whack in the first place. Now, it was still out of whack, but the stabilizer just increased the “stabilization” of the components. Ha!

No, he said… not necessary when he got finished with the fix, it won’t need anything other than the components replaced and set correctly in the alignment. But, he did have all of the tires shaved to actually being round. They were new tires, as I was thinking it needed new tires. But, forgot that even new tires needed shaving to get them round.

Jnaki

So, no other components were necessary, the friend was an expert in all repair and alignment to any front end and loved working on old hot rods. The sedan delivery drove so straight and not a single wiggle or sway was had in freeway speeds, either. It rode so well that my wife wanted to drive the 327 powered sedan delivery to all of her errands and to visit her friends.

The drive was so nice that my wife wanted to drive to our mom’s house in Long Beach, by going up the coast. My personal driver as the sedan delivery was like new car.

But, when she took the sedan delivery, I was stuck driving around in a funky 62 Corvair. Even in the rainy So Cal days, the Corvair was like a boat and when I went through deep channel intersections, the water came up and into the vents to flood the inset floor panel areas. Now, I was sitting in sloshing water until it dried later on when I got home. Yikes!

The point is everyone will have their two cents worth of fix it solutions, but the steps our expert, front end specialist, friend used lasted for many miles of city driving, mountain excursions and long distance surf adventures along the So Cal coastline areas. Not a single shake, wiggle or hick-up was felt after the thorough repair. YRMV

 

Cross steering requires that the steering arm on the passenger side spindle move in an arc as the suspension moves, or bump steer will result. A properly designed Panhard bar will constrain the movement of the front axle to (something close to) that arc. The cross link and the Panhard bar should ideally be the same length, and parallel to each other, when seen from the front — or as close as you can get it. It doesn't matter very much how they differ when seen from above, within reason.

One of the things caster angle does in steering is to dampen steering oscillations. Damping is a valid function. When there are sound reasons to limit caster angle, e.g. to reduce caster trail, there might be insufficient damping due to caster angle. In such cases there is nothing wrong with a hydraulic steering damper. (It is a partial fix, though, because by sticking with a small caster angle you're giving up the camber correction a larger angle might have given you.)

 

I love this type of reply where it invites you to prove yourself without attacking the OP... the " I say you are wrong" leaves the OP the opportunity to prove their self... so my answer is this....take a car that does nothing wrong, all suspension is set up and new...But once it's on the hiway and a front tire gets in a groove to follow it pushes a lateral force back and forth on the axel... what will be the fix.... a dead perch will stop this.... a panhard will stop it... and a dampener will controll it......depending on the constant lateral force ... you choose... what will have the best ride with the least amount of shock trans fer to the steering wheel is the dampener be cause it works as a crush Zone... where as the dead perch and panhard bar don't give at all , so again I would say, they all to the same thing.....at normal driving...but the dampener will have a lower limit...

 

I find this to be very correct...

"A damper will NOT do the job of a Panhard rod as it's not attached to the axle and frame. It's attached to the tie-rod and simply acts to dampen wheel oscillation on a poorly designed/set up front end."

A dampener does what it designed to do, helps the driver stay in control and not get the steering wheel jerked out of their hands and keeps the tie rod from jerking back and fourth
a proper set up car needs none of the above on a smooth road..

 

like a moth to the flame.... lmfao

 

if you take the design of a cross steer...it will work, it will steer the wheels.. the design works well with parallel leaf springs.. now change to cross steer and cross spring...you need something to control lateral move ment... calling it a band aid was just following previous statements... as stated in the beginning, I have 3 RPU's built by 3 different builders. And all have different :"band aids"... just wondering why, and whats the reason... turns out to be preference...