Featured Technical redrilling 5 on 5.5 to 5 on 4.

I think I can do it...

 

How about the inner side of the hub?

 

It looks like it's going to be close.

 

Getting the bolt pattern centered is the tricky part. Do you have a mill?

 

What the heck is 5 on 4 ?

 

My thought also. What uses a bolt pattern that small?

 

Those are Mopar A Body wheels. They used the 5X4" from 1963 to 1972. Those small bolt pattern are pretty sought after. You would probably be wise to sell them and find what you want in the size and bolt pattern you need. That small bolt pattern used either 13" or 14" wheels, so they might not even clear big drums. What size are these wheels. The A Body Forum would be a good place to sell them. FORABODIESONLY.

 

The Mopar A body is the 63-72 Valiant, 64-69 Barracuda, 63-72 Dodge Dart, and the 70-72 Plymouth Duster.

 

Lemondana is 100 percent correct, great advice

 

I do it in a manual mill, with a DRO and an electronic probe, all of the time.

 

If you redrill them and find they don't work for you, no Mopar guy will want them, rendering them useless. And it's very doubtful that they fit over disc brakes with the 5.5 pattern or the bigger drums that you probably have.

 

And the center register is smaller than most other hubs.

 

Finding 15x4" slotted mags is getting harder, I've been looking for some time now. I've found 3 sets with 5 on 4" small Mopar pattern. (and some chevy patterns) but no 5 on 5 1/2"
EDIT: not running any brakes, so clearance won't be an issue. (going on an Altered)
anyway, I figure I have 3 options,
1. Buy aftermarket hubs with correct bolt pattern.
2. Re-drill hubs bolt pattern and decrease size of hub for wheel center. 3.125 to 3.00"
3. Re-drill wheels bolt pattern and fill in existing holes.

There is an area on back of wheels that will accept 5 on 5 1/2" holes, but will be very close to existing holes.

I'm leaning towards re-drilling hubs and using screw-in 1/2 x 20 studs. (either double ended or Allen head) BUT, hubs don't have alot of material between bearing races either.

 

With out seeing Hub , thats more likely
What I would do , re-drill hub's.
Or Slot wheel /Rim
I remember in early 70s seeing oblong holes , I allways told Unilug / slots?

Double studs , I would use a High grade studs instead of whats shown , ARP etc.
On my Altered over 200 ,
Spindle mounted ,

 

Make sore your center of hub will fit through the wheel . What I found ( too late ) is that the ford hub is too large for most aluminum rims that aren’t made for the larger pattern

 

Printed 2 of these. After verifying no distortion happened during printing, I'll be glueing to hubs.
note: this includes "5 on 4-inch pattern" which almost none of the bolt pattern templates do.

 

I dunno. Can't just eyeball with a paper template. You might be close enough, but that's still a guess.

 

How much for you to print and mail me a couple of those. I have several of the wheel checkers /and paper /plastic disc but I’d like to have one or two of those. I’ve never seen one with the 5 on 4 either. Maybe I am not looking at what I have hanging on the wall but I like what I see that you did.

 

I wouldn't use a paper template to locate the holes either. Unless you don't care if the holes are off center or not precisely located.
If you have a rotary table, find the rotating center of the hub, and move out 2" from there. Then rotate precisely 72° for the rest of the holes.
Without a rotary table, if you have a lathe or some way to rotate the hub on it's center, scribe a 4" diameter circle, put a center punch mark for the first hole, then use a pair of dividers (compass) to locate the rest.

 

I'd never consider drilling holes with a paper pattern, especially for any vehicle going very fast. I'd want either a jig to perfectly locate holes, or do it with DRO to ensure perfection. Even a tiny bit off will cause big problems.

 

I do have a Rotary Table on my Drill press that I will use, hopefully just like Mr. Lawless describes above. The template will be on there also. fyi, I have a little lathe I'll use to turn down hub on also.

 

I am not a fan of the paper pattern idea. Probably easier to find a buddy, or buddy of your buddy, with a lathe. Turn out two slugs sized to correctly fit your inner and outter bearings. Center drill while mounted with the bearing mounting in the lathe chuck. Mount hub in lathe between centers using bearings the bearing adapters. Drive with a lathe dog. Carefully measure for the 2" offset and cut a marking groove. Then mount hub securely in a good drill press and drill.

 

I get the make it from what you have, but they are still making them.
https://www.us-mags.com/us-mag-1pc-indy
Since you are going from the smallest to the biggest, and they are rare, you might try contacting the Co. and see if they can do a pair without the holes or to your desired PCD.
Worked at a shop that did this for another wheel seller. They had a jig and did them on a vertical mill to ensure no runout issues.

 

Thats Very Impressive, I'll probably just remove bearing race and chuck inner ID of Hub

I may be reading it incorrectly, but the narrowest 15" wheel with 5 on 5 1/2 pattern is 7" wide. I really wanted 3 1/2 wide, but settled for 15x4". I even considered narrowing a pair of wheels.

 

I made my own drill guide to go from 5 on 5 1/2" to 5 on 4 1/2".
Need a piece of aluminum or steel large enough to cover the larger diameter.
Center punch it and scribe the two diameters.
Every 72* around the circles mark the stud locations, offsetting the marks on one circle by 36* from the other.
Drill out the existing bolt circle so the holes just fit over the studs.
Drill 1/8" pilot holes in the desired bolt circle.
Cut out the center to fit over the hub.
Put the guide over the existing studs and bolt it down.
Use an 1/8" bit to drill through the pilot holes in the guide to center he new holes.
Take the guide off and drill away.
Mine has run good to 75+MPH, although I think you may be going a shade faster.

 

Yes, I did a quick look and your exact desire is not in the standard offerings. That's why I included this

IF (big if) they are done here in small batches (each offset would be a different set up) and
IF (big if) they have the ability to pull 2 off the machining line and skip the lug hole part OR drill them to a different PCD, and
IF (big if) they are willing to do these extra steps for special customer order at a reasonable fee you might be able to get them as you want.
Just offering another possible solution for you! Like I said, I get the 'got something close, let's make it work' ethos.

 

First, after looking at the back of the wheel with its raised boss, I would not attempt to drill and use these wheels.

IF you drill them, the normal method is to rotate the wheel and drill the outer holes centered between the existing holes.........but the odd back on the wheel isn't conducive to doing that. Trying to drill new holes that are on the same centerline with the existing holes will provide a weak area between those holes. Not something you want on a street vehicle much less a race vehicle.

The paper pattern may work if you get lucky, but most likely you will have a problem.

Given what you have to work with....(lathe/drill press/rotary table)

Get a piece of steel plate and weld a plug to the back of it.

The plug should be turned to a size where it slips into the wheel hole. Put a chamfer at the end that goes against the plate to allow the weld to be smaller. The diameter of the plug should be turned to size so it fits the wheels center hole before you weld it to the plate.

Once its welded to the plate, mount the plug in the lathe chuck and turn the OD of the plate till its concentric with the plug. Then, Put some dykem blue on the face of the plate. I like the kind you can spray on. (Amazon)

Now use the lathe tool to scribe a circle on the plate. Do this by simply turning the lathe on and LIGHTLY touching the plate while its spinning in the lathe. You want a 5" diameter line. If its not perfect, spray the dykem and try again till you get it just right.

Also, drill the center of the plate maybe 1/4" or so and then bore that hole out to maybe an inch or so diameter. Size isn't important, it will just be used later for indicating concentricity.


When using a rotary table on a milling machine, you indicate the rotary table concentric with the chuck..........then you move it 2.5" left or right and lock the table down. You don't have that calibrated table to move when using a drill press.

So, you put the rotary table under the chuck and indicate it true to the drill press spindle and temporarily clamp it so it can't move. Double check that its concentric now that its clamped.

Then place the drill jig you are making on the rotary table with the plug in the rotary table hole and lightly clamp it to the rotary table. Now rotate the rotatable surface and use an indicator to center the part. Move the part about and indicate it concentric to the rotary table by using the hole you bored in it.

The rotary table IS still clamped to the drill table concentric to the drill spindle. The jig you are building is clamped to the rotary table and is concentric to both the rotary table and the drill spindle.


OK, at this point the part is mounted in the rotary table and rotating concentrically and tightened down on the rotary table. Now release the rotary table from the drill press table and shift it sideways 2.5". You have no way to do this accurately because its a drill press and not a milling machine. So now its a matter of trying to get it to the right place by tapping the rotary table till that line you scribed with the lathe is directly under the drill bit.

You can get a small pointed center to put in the drill chuck so it can be lowered till it touches that line. When it touches the line, clamp the rotary table down to the drill press again.

Set your rotary tables reference at zero. Lower the center till it touches the line and tap it against the metal. Should leave a small divot. Rotate 72 degrees and tap again. Do that 5 times and see if your pattern looks correct. Then when you actually drill the holes, use a small "center drill" to drill where you put the divots, and a smaller than finished size drill bit to drill your holes.

When you drill the wheel, The smaller sized holes will give you a chance to check everything. You simply set the gage on the wheel and make some little divots with the same bit. Remove the gage and check how things look with the small divots you made. If everything looks good, then use the gage and drill the wheels to the small diameter. Then enlarge the holes in the gage and drill the wheel almost to finish size while using the gage . I would then use a reamer in a drill to finish the holes round. Two flute drills aren't really good at making round holes. A 3 flute or a reamer will do a much better job.

Thats how I would do it if I didn't have a milling machine. I would not try the paper template. Again, I also would not do this to the wheels you have. Best of luck whatever you decide........

 

I am wondering if there is a machine shop/wheel service around Omaha that would do something similar, have a set of dragmaster rims that are 4.75" pattern and want 4.5". Watching what you come up with.

 

Should have started with this?
I like to repair and build things, and don't want to by new parts if I don't have too. I could buy new wheels (even custom drilled to my specifications) I could buy new shiny aluminum Hubs, maybe Willwood or something better. I could take what I have to a local machine shop and do it for me. I could buy a whole new front end. But this is what have chosen to use.


I cleaned up face of turned down hub to fit wheel hub-centric nicely. I carefully glued template and shortly after noticed the 4" template holes are not offset from original pattern. So that ain't gonna work.


I'm currently reading reply's and want to thank you guys alot. I'm liking the make a metal template idea. Funny thing, if I didn't have internet I wouldn't have looked for a pre-made template and possibly would be making my own.

 

I put back in lathe and used a razor blade to cut/mark a 4" circle, template looks pretty close.