Technical Break shoe components not lining up - any ideas?

Hey guys, I need some wisdom on brake shoes. No matter what I do I can’t get things to line up correctly. I can force things into the correct position but after a little use the wheel cylinder pins are at an angle. I have disassembled it and put it back together multiple times. You will see in my picture that the adjuster is run out a great deal. This is the only way to get contact with the drum. I bought the shoes from Kanter and I’ve always had great luck with them. However my suspicion is these shoes may not fit correctly. I’m hoping the problem is something I’m not doing correctly. I did not replace the springs because they seem to be in good order. Do you guys have any ideas?

 

how do the new shoes compare to the old ones?

 

I agree with Squirrel plus it looks like the top retractor springs are far more open between the windings than I'm used to seeing. Do I see a short lining on the Rear shoe?

 

Do you have the old shoes to compare the placement for the wheel cylinder link.
I've had a vehicle or two where the links have a bit of an angle but seemed to function fine. Since the shoe rotates a bit when it grabs the drum, this can put the link in line with the piston and shoe for better alignment.

 

Ok now from the top so we can actually help figure something out.
What backing plates do you have as in what rear axle do you have and what is the size of the brakes you have?
What is the part number of the brake shoes you put on it?
What is the part number of the wheel cylinders you put on or the casting number on the wheel cylinders.

Tapered axles and those wheel cylinders makes me want to think that you have a Mopar axle.

And please tell us that you did not for any reason push the brake pedal with the drum off.

One more thing, Ryan does not charge extra to hit that box that says make the photos bigger. The eyes that are looking at those images can't tell a frigging thing from tiny photos.

 

You should have the shoe with the short lining to the front. It looks like you have them reversed. But that may not solve your problem.

 

If you haven't already taken the other side apart yet, take a look at it.

 

Not exactly sure what vehicle you're working on but do know that Series model matters in old heavy cars. Let's say you're working on a 1950 Olds. Series 88 and 98 have different size drums and use different shoes each. On the floor they both look much the same shoe. What I see in your photos makes me think those shoes belong a larger drum.

 

Correct that! I meant a smaller drum not larger drum.

 

Agree with above, shoes in reversed position, possibly smaller drum application of shoes.

And as a side note I taught my kids to take and rebuild one side at a time so that you have a reference on the other side.

...

 

I would measure the drum to see if it is way oversize. Then I would double check the shoes to make sure they are correct. I would put the drum on and adjust the shoes until they touch and step on the brake pedal. repeat adjusting and pressuring until they are tight. Then I would back them off slightly and remove the drum and see how it looks. I have has loose shoes look like that before.

 

The E- brake cable looks like it may be extended slightly.
Try the assembly without and if things line up, see why it is not retracting.
Also ( been a while * ages * ) since I've been there, but seems like the E-brake bar rides behind the the shoe web. (?)

 

The bottom spring looks wrong. You need the shorter one that goes right over the star wheel. Which seems to be pretty much cranked out.

Is the e-brake arm wedged against the inside of the shoe? Look for ridges on the backing plate, the shoes might be hung up.

 

Appears to be wrong shoes for vehicle. Note the misalignment of the slave cylinder pushrods in their respective slots. Also as noted, the adjustor seems to be out a lot for a new set of shoes.

 

What is this brake supposed to be from?
There's many things wrong with your pictured assembly.
Shoes are reversed, as already mentioned, and possibly wrong.
Park lever normally is on the inside of the secondary shoe, not outside.
Wheel cylinder may be wrong, causing the extreme pin angles.
Lower shoe spring is reversed. Spring coils should be over the adjuster star wheel to prevent movement.
New correct shoes with a correct drum ID should only need minimum adjuster extension.
More info is needed to help you with that disaster.

 

I would refer to the service manual.

 

As said, that bottom spring is just wrong. If you still have the original shoes compare and see if they gave you the wrong shoes. You can have your original shoes relined, Brake and Equipment in Minneapolis can do it.

 

Just guessing, but this is probably for the Cadillac in his avatar?

 

The thumb on the flat spring that fits on the parking brake strut or bridge bar goes behind the brake shoe not in front.
This holds the park strut off the hub or axel so it wont rattle on it.

 

I would also add that the e brake cable be loosened and readjusted after the shoes get installed correctly and adjusted.

 

Aside from the aforementioned bottom spring being installed wrongly, and the adjuster being out too far for a (supposedly) new set of brake shoes, there's this;

 

I missed that all together last night but those look like the wrong springs entirely.
With the enlarged photo I see that the shoes are on wrong in that you have the shorter "primary lining" in the rear and the longer " secondary lining in the front. That on page 1 of how to do drum brakes correctly 101, The shoe with the least lining always goes to the front and the one with the most lining or friction if the two linings have a different friction coefficient goes to the rear.
The springs are wrong for non self adjusting brakes and I am going out on a limb and assume that you bought springs for self adjusting brakes rather than the correct springs and that is the major key to your whole problem. From my days back at Firestone in Waco in the early 70's that mess looks like what I would see on a Monday when Mom and little brother brought big brothers car in and said that big brother and his buddy did a brake job on Saturday and they don't work right can you fix them. At least one Monday a month was fix someone's Saturday brake job screw up.

AGAIN! WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU WORKING ON? incomplete questions without all the information assuming that Squirrel, Mr48 or Gatz or one of the others will know the answer don't work most of the time because we need exact details on what you are working with.

 

Parking brake lever is on the wrong side of the car and the wrong side of the brake shoe which is wrong should be on the long shoe.

 

Park brake is on the correct side, you can see the cable going to the front. He has the shoes backwards.
I've seen way too many "did my brakes on Saturday and they don't work right" with the shoes on correct on one side and on backwards on the other side because. they kept going around to the other side to see how they put those shoes on and didn't reverse the image to put primary in front and secondary in the rear on the other side but he has more and bigger issues than that and the main issue is wrong brake springs. He has springs for self adjusting brakes and it doesn't have self adjusting brakes.
Old non self adjusting brakes use a spring like the one in this image that holds the star wheel from turning.


Obviously the springs were ordered wrong and the shoes may not be the correct shoes for those backing plates. I'm not going to put 100 % of the blame on Sean though as that damned well could be a long way from the first rear axle that someone bought that was not what the seller told them it was especially what year the seller told and probably assumed it was. We play the " I bought this car and need to do the brakes what rear end do I have" game on here on a regular basis because a lot of cars get handed around without detailed info and if you bought it from a damned flipper you have no idea what you got.

 

And Hey, somebody gotta say it's the BRAKES
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Okay, We've all beat this to death trying to Help. I want to know, where did Sean Edwards go? Is any of this helping or are we just filling up Space?

 

He’s too embarrassed to come back and admit his mistakes.

 

Couple things; that style shoe usually uses a different spring over the adjuster.



While he is sorting out the other problems; it would also be a good idea for Sean to check the support pads on the backing plates for wear which can cause the shoes to hang up.

 

Could be, hope not. While sometimes scary; there is a lots of good information and help available here.

 

Sometimes I wonder why people don’t buy a service manual. Even on my avatar I picked up an olds service manual for the rocket motor, just for reference. There cheap