Projects FlatHead or Y Block?

Mike,

Can you expand on your comment regarding buying a new banger with an OHV conversion for $4-5K? I talking about the Burtz stuff?

 

It's gonna be my main runner and driver, Not just something to look at in admiration

 

Money was something I've considered, all my other engine options need a rebuild except the donor 59AB in my dad's car

 

My car really won't be hauling that much except me and maybe a girl, and its just a normal 2 door sedan delivery

 

Something I haven't mentioned yet was the rear end, We're putting a '34 rear end from my dad's car, then putting a '36 rear end under his, which was how my grandpa was gonna build it.

 

It would be the quickest for sure, the original flathead built for the '34 needs rebuilt so we were gonna do the engine swap that way, the one in there was as a temporary but was never swapped because the original flathead was never rebuilt.

 

I don't blame you, flatheads definitely do have their quality's, I'm also a little biased because I love the sound of a flathead.

 

and i forgot to add, a flathead can be built to have power, even some smaller upgrades can give a flathead some more kick

 

That was my worry to, flatheads are small, dont need so much screwing around to get to fit

 

soon, '34 can be done today but I don't want to because I'm lazy, but I will when the '29 is a roller.

 

OHV really isn't something I had considered, but road trips are a must, especially up to Cali'

 

The first engine my dad let me rebuild on my own was the 292 Y Block in the 59 wagon I drove to high school. Between that and a flathead in an A I'd go for the flathead all day.
As far as Bangers the Burtz will run you about 8-10 grand as a flathead using all new parts and you'll need to add another 5-7 depending on what OH you want to run.
I'm building a Banger B with Brierley head and cam for my 29. I'll have about $3,500 in it when done. There are lots of good parts to be had at swap meets and even cheaper ones at estate sales.
BTW - Cali = tourist SoCal & NorCal = locals.

 

With either engine being this old, I'm glad you have both your dad and grandad helping you along.

 

So why in the hell ain't you sticking the flathead in there already?

 

331cid early hemi
265cid or 283cid chevy with 3 x 2bbl
over 300cid bigbore, long stroke flathead.

I had A ford with 331cid + muncie 20. Runs easily 13,5sec 1/4 mile without any hiperf stuff.
Nice built engine, outlook is perfect.
Old "new wave" hot rod engine late 50s was SBC. short stroke 265, 283 + good cam shaft, little more compressio ratio than originally,... sounds very good. Or 283 + 327 crank, or 327cid...

Aulis

 

I agree with your OHV banger estimate. The heads alone is twice the other poster's estimate. I have yet to find a vintage OHV head that was bolt on and didn't need some work. New is the way to cool if you can find one of the repops that is used, but unused due to a stalled project.

General rule of thumb is a OHV banger is twice the cost of redoing a flathead.

 

Go with the engine that will take the least amount of money to get running! It won't cost you anything to pull the heads on both engines, check the RIDGE on the top of each cylinder. The less ridge, the better. Scrape the carbon off the top od each piston, it will be stamped with the overbore size. Pull the oil pan, use Plastigauge to measure the bearing clearance on each bearing. How smooth is each crank journal? Would your fingernail drag across it it without catching? I'm thinking a "el cheapo" rebuild with new rings and bearings, gasket kit, for starters.

Valve sealing is a matter of adding some solvent above the valves, see if it leaks out. Remove the valves, look for excessive crud on the backside of the head to indicate worn valve guides. Some deposits are ok, less is better. See how much play the valve has in its guide. Maybe just lapping the valves will be enough for a good seal. The Y-Block will have a rocker assembly that will need to be checked for wear on the rockers and shafts.

Camshaft - Remove each lifter, clean with solvent, then mark its location with a Sharpie. If the wear isn't excessive on the lifters and cam lobes, you can install the lifters in the EXACT same position. It the flathead cam is worn, get it reground with the lifters to a 3/4 race grind for a bit more power.

Between the two engines, you have a great oppertunity to learn a ton of good stuff, spend some quality time with your dad and grandpa! On your own, there is Youtube and books at your library. When you see what you need, rockauto.com prices can't be beat, but for a teenager, everything is expensive!

Around your age, I started mowing yards, trimming the edges (with a hand clipper) around my neighborhood. I based my rates by the minium wage, how long it took me to do my parent's yards to start, to estimate other yards. Dad was happy to let me use his mower, gas, brooms, everything I needed to make my own money, SAVE for a old Chevy truck that helped me make more money, with dump runs and work outside the 'hood. I'm OLD enough to remember when string trimmer came out! See a NEED? FILL that need, charge a price that people can afford, do neat clean work with PRIDE! Each yard I cut was a reflection of me... and I had 5 steady customers on one block at one time. NEVER turn down a chance to make a few bucks, however you can, BUT don't neglect your homework or let your grades slip - or bye-bye hotrod for the next school semester!

Good Luck, go have the BEST time with Dad and Grandpa!!!

 

Apparently I did not realize that OHV conversions have become that expensive. Not to mention rebuilding an A engine. I was working on what it cost me a some time ago.

 

OK...
I believe it adds too much complexity to this project.
Y block to ModelA/Early V8 bell housings have not been made in many years. This means rounding up rare and expensive parts.
Comparable early OHV engines like Cadillacs and Olds actually have more aftermarket support for the closed early V8 transmission.
Y block, Olds, Cadillac and Mopar, all are neat but I would not recommend any of these.
Motor mounts.....
Lastly just the Y block itself. They have their quirks.
I like them but I like them in a Y block vehicle.

This looks to be a pretty simple build with early parts so I think Model A (Banger) or Early V8 (Flathead) is the simplest route.

I think an education on chassis and steering is very important right now.

If they decide to go open drive that opens engine choice up some.

 

What about fixing the '34 as a driver? Pulling the engine out of the '34 doesn't make sense unless there are other plans for it in the future. What body style is the '34 and is there more to the story? Remember you are going to have to find someone to insure your project when you start driving it.

Go to local car shows and notice how many people have used Y block engines, I bet there won't be many (there may be a reason(s) for that). If you can find the owners ask them if they would make that choice again. Put your general location in your profile and maybe someone will recommend shows. If you are in Southern California I would recommend the LA Roadster (LARS) show on fathers day weekend.

I find the thought of a Model A or B engine (or the new Burtz block) appealing. See attached photo of a dressed out 4 banger. Remember the Y-block is heavy and a very large engine to put under the hood of a Model A.

Charlie Stephens

 

I'm not a flathead guy, but if its a question of budget, I'd use the flathead. Sounds like the better condition of the two motors, it wont destroy the 34 rear end, and in a model a I bet itd be plenty fast with the right rear gears (3.78 or 3.54).

Build it how you want and ask questions if you have them... sounds like lots of guys on here would be eager to help you.

Gordy

 

I agree with Gordon. I'm not sure if the OP mentioned this or not, but what year flathead is it again? If it's a pre-'36 LB block, the fact that it still has babbit main bearings could bring the cost of the rebuild up quickly since fewer and fewer guys are repouring and cutting babbit mains. If it's an insert main motor, then I'd 100% move forward with doing the flathead.

Edit: I re-read where the OP thinks it's a 59AB. I'd confirm what you have before proceeding. If it still can turn over either with a starter or by hand and is not seized and is indeed a 59AB, I'd go with that.

 

well theres 2 reasons. 1: It's not even a roller yet, so then we would be trying to work with a car that has a engine in it.
2: We want the original motor for the 34 built so we can just swap em.

 

3 window 34, and the motor thats in there wasn't the one my grandpa had built for it many moons ago, and there is a lot of story and history to the car. me and my dad always go to the Fathers day show and swap meet

 

I just asked my dad, and that's what he said.

 

I think you would be happier with the overhead valve engine.
If you drive highways anyway.

 

I'm an absolute Idiot, I forgot OHV meant overhead valve, smh.