Hey guys, Ive been looking for a Schroeder box for a while and ran across this on last week at the swap meet. Thanks homie from Amarillo. Ive never seen one with a power steering box on it. Im thinking of running the unit with a Volvo electric ps pump. I cant find any information on these units. I did a search here and found no information. Id appreciate any help..
You should check the ratio on the box if you can. Some of them are pretty twitchy if the ratio isn’t right. I don’t know a lot about them although I’ve read a few posts on them. A little research should clear things up. I don’t understand why it is equipped with a power steering unit. Those steering boxes are typically used on small light weight little cars that are typically easy to steer. The only other thing I can think of is that maybe it was used on an outlaw dirt track car and the front was fitted with big wide dirt track tires that increased the steering effort needed.
I did one and it was the 8-1 box. Drove ok after I installed a steering stabilizer. Looked cool but would never do another one. Save yourself some grief and just do a belly button Vega. you won't be sorry.
We tried one of Schroeder’s power steering conversions on a 9to1 champ box. They were machined to very tight tolerances and any debris would cause them to fail. Your box with the rib around the main casing is probably an 8to1 box, maybe even a 6to1.
The reason that you "don't understand why it is equipped with a power steering unit" is that you have never driven a sprint car or midget on a rough dirt track at speed. While the power steering makes the vehicle easier to steer, the real benefit is that it absorbs input shock when the front wheels his a hole or rut sideways at 100 mph.
Thanks krylon, I tried mocking up a vega box, got a couple of em, but there is just no way. Ive got the hemi sitting so low in the frame, Id haft to lift it. Not wanting to do that. And thank you Dave, I cant find any info on this unit, Id like to take it apart to clean and inspect it before running it.
Thanks jaracer, nope Ive never had the pleasure of driving a sprint or midget car. I see you have. Would you know where I can find Info on this box ? Or can you tell me about it ? I really appreciate all the help.
It's hard to tell from the picture, but it looks small like it might be a midget steering gear. I never had a Schroeder steering gear. My car with a manual 8:1 gear had a Hallibrand. My other cars with power steering had Lee gears. I see that IDITIT bought Schroeder and they do offer an inspection service. You might get in contact with them to see if they can identify the steering gear you have. After the first season with my car, I disassembled the car and all the components. I asked a few people about going through the steering gear. I got some conflicting advise, but one guy said, why don't you just call Hallibrand? I did and got Ted Hallibrand on the phone. He was a bit gruff, however he did tell me how to go through the gear and the proper adjustment. I got the right advise from the right place.
I don't want to open up old wounds but check Pete Eastwood on here and his and others comments on side steering. Forget that I just checked and I think it may have been deleted. It was a little controversial.
They were also used on Modifieds, the steering boxes in today's center steer modifieds are the same basic design, by Profile. They also started adding Caster which made the cars more stable, but took more physical effort to turn. I bought my manual Schroeder box from Russ Betz... ...he changed this car to a power steering Schroeder box in the mid 1970.... this car still exist and is owned by Russ. A modern Profile box- and the pump- Link to pump - https://behrents.com/parts/profile-racing-pro002.asp A Profile P.S. unit is Kenny Weld Sidewinder chassis
I have no opinion one way or the other but this thread may have some helpful info- https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/cowl-steering-again.1300891/
Man, someone needs to stop all the USAC midgets, sprint cars, Silver Crown cars, World of Outlaws Sprint cars, D.I.R.T modifieds and sportsman form running axles and cowl steering! Better get them off the bias-ply tires too!
RJP Different world between roundy round racing and driving on the street. I'm not saying cowl steering on the open highway is dangerous it just requires a different driving expertise over conventional cross steer. I've done it with all the best components and proper engineering and would not do it again.
I have a Profile power steering gear on my avatar roadster. When I first put the car together I had ribbed fronts and double diamonds on the rear. I loved the ribbed front look but hated how they drove and followed every groove or rain siping groove on the road. The power steering cured all that. The only problem was the repop ribbed fronts wore out like erasers! I went to 165x15 Nesens and that problem went away. I still have power gear and enjoy the ease of steering with a nose heavy, hemi powered car. I remember when I got the gear and took it to Tommy Lee to freshen it. He took one look at it and said, "that's a Profile gear. They copied my design!". I told him that I knew that, but now he was given the opportunity to overhaul it and make it his. He thought about it for a second agreed to go through it for me. Sixteen years later Tommy has retired and it still steers flawlessly.
Frist off its oval track not roundy round but for some reason people are under the assumption (we all know what happens when you assume) all that these tracks are perfectly smooth and flat. Far from it! The tracks start off heavy and tacky as the night goes on and the more car hit the track it the dries out and goes dry slick the cars will tear the track surface up. Ruts and holes develop if those holes are in your line you have to drive through them you can have a car that has steering geometry, or bump steer. It is also a balance of trying to hook to the power without overpowering the track. All these photo are of local NY dirt tracks the night after the racing or the next morning, now can you imagen hitting holes like this a 80, 90, 100 M.P.H. with a car that bump steers or geometry with not to mention doing this while trying to advice your position and no lose position to 25 or 30 other people doing the same thing? Asphalt track also have bumps, crack, patches etc.. It's not just a relaxing drive or stab it and steer it. Not me but a couple friends on mine Mohawk Valley Vintage at Fonda notice the track conditions how he works the throttle and the steering around the track. This is way your car needs to handle!
It's it not acceptable on the pit side my dad is an easy-going guy (as you know) say Roundy Round to him, or any old timer and they quickly inform you never to use that term.
Oval track cars have been using buggy springs and cowl exit steering since the 1920s it is proven technology, the laws of physics are the same on the track and on the street, the Doane Spencer used this set up it. Many want to talk Bump Steer, but very few seem to know the correct way to check it. It is checked at ride height with the shocks and springs removed, if it is a race car or a street car bump steer is checked the same way.
I’ve got a regular Schroeder, and another with an added on power conversion. It’s packed away and I can’t remember the brand name on the power section. Can you find a name on yours? I was actually going to remove the power part from mine but never got around to it yet.
Asked the OP to send me his e-mail so I could get him pictures of how I did mine. Told him to post them on here for the good the bad and the ugly. I'm a big boy and it wouldn't be the HAMB if someone didn't post an opinion. I thought it would be good to see how someone has done theirs ande not just a lot of theory.
I just looked through old PM’s and found a discussion about my power Schroeder. Mine has a Schrillo conversion on it.
The main reason for the switch to power steering in the racecars in the late '70s/ early '80s was the change to using roughly 10degrees of kingpin inclination(also known as "caster") to help stabilize the cars. However, there was a downside : even King Kong wasn't strong enough to turn the wheel with that much caster, so they added power steering to make the cars drivable...
If you don't insist on power steering, a much cheaper cowl steering solution can be made from an early '50s Ford pickup Gemmer box.
@drtrcrV-8 Not trying to bust your balls, but 'King Pin Inclination' is not the same as 'Caster'. KPI is the the angle of the of the steering axis as viewed from the front or rear from true vertical. Caster is the angle of the steering axis as viewed from the side from true vertical. Both of them will affect steering effort, caster more so. I could go on, but I don't want to derail this thread. Just the old 'Auto Shop Teacher' coming out.
After I welded the shaft extension on I measured the runout at the end of the shaft. It was only a few thou out. So I made up a split outboard pillow block with the same amount of clearance to the shaft that there was runout. That way it would still give outboard support with no bind. To keep it turning freely I bored an internal lubrication channel and added a Zerk fitting. To account for future wear I added a shim between the support halves so that I can remove a shim if it gets a little sloppy. You may notice I also converted the Gemmer box to grease lubrication, after I shortened the steering wheel shaft. Then I filled the box with a gooey mixture of original gear oil and grease to keep it from seeping.
The Jalopy Journal
