Technical 63 nova lower control arm install help

I rebuilt the front suspension and added disc brakes. It went from 13 inch tires to 15 inch tires. 4 lug to 5 lug.
All new brakes and spindles. New bearings. New ball joints, springs, tie rods.
Measured old length on tie rods. New idler arm. New steering arms.
The tires when going forward lean in at top. When I back up they lean in at bottom.
When I say lean in it's 45 degrees in. Like a clown car would do.
I checked for binding found nothing.
The lower ball joints move up and down where the ball fits the socket. They are tight in spindle.
I wish I would have took pics. I replaced the lower joints and its better but they still lean a little.
WHAT AM I MISSING?
Ball joints or bearings are all I got that would do this.

 

like this?


The lower control arm, strut rod and lower ball joint hold the spindle at the bottom. The upper control arm, bushings and upper ball joint hold the spindle at the top.The spindle should be roughly level at ride height. If it's moving from lots of positive camber to negative camber depending on which way it's rolling, something is very loose.
It could be the bearings too, but 45 is a LOT.

 

That's it. Nothing is loose though. That's what they look like depending on going forward or backward.
I figure caster or camber but why so much movement?
What would be so loose?

 

The entire point of the front suspension is to hold the wheel and tire in position, allow it to compress and rebound and to steer all while holding straight up and down and in the same direction. It is not supposed to move. So something is loose. I could list things or guess, but the smart move is to check it all.

 

Did you reinstall the barbed spacer that goes between the control arm bushing and the pocket for the control arm? If not, lower arm will walk in and out.

 

@Johnny Gee Thanks, I will check that. I didn't know they were special.
How do they make it move though? They are just washers.

 

The toe is off, as you go forward the tires are actually trying to turn out but the tie rods prevent this so you actually get the bottom of the tires (because they make contact to the ground- friction) being pulled out making it look like the top of the tire is moving in but no it's the bottom being pulled out.

Now reverse direction, in the above its toe out, now going backwards the tires are toe'd in soooo the tires [again the bottom because that's where the contact/friction is) is pushing the bottom/contact area in so the top lookes way out when it's actually the bottom going in not the top out...

See this every day when people put their own parts on and bring it to me to align...

So just take it to a good shop and have it aligned... simple as that....


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That was going to be my next move. I want to get it aligned.
Just trying to figure out what I done wrong.
I have rebuilt front suspension's before just never had this problem.

 

Have you taken it to the alignment shop?

 

Not yet. I want to be able to get it close first. Right now afraid to drive it on trailer.

 

ok so I tore it apart. I used regular washers on lower control arm. I found the original ones. They looked flat and wore out so I put regular washers in.
I ordered new camber bolts and washers . Hopefully that's all it is.
Thanks for the education. I am used to dual a arm with spring in between.

 

It’s been a great many years since doing one. That said I did some looking and found out the the after make these t-bushings but they are smooth. No good. This is how I remember how the factory spacers looked.

How it works is the inner steel sleeve of the control arm bushing bites against the inner side of the space and the outer side of the spacer bites against the pocket the control arm fits into. These also keep the control arm pocket perfectly parallel making for good even clamping force.

 

Here’s what the aftermarket t-bushing/spacers look in comparison.

 

Thanks I ordered a set. Hope they work.

 

Bad toe will cause odd problems. I've had cars come in so far out, they were hard to get on the rack. But nothing like you describe.

Good call on Johnny Gee for likely saving the day!

 

Are you saying that you can actually see a difference in the alignment of the front end between it moving forwards and moving backwards?

 

It’s something to look into. “Saving”, well let’s just say the Chevy II that I V8 swapped back in the mid 80’s did not have those barbed spacers in place. Talk about a hand full after launching the car, getting up to speed then letting off. How I did not hit a parked car or go up someone lawn I don’t know. All my efforts in correction were zero. It did what it wanted to do. I was only along for the ride.

A trip to the local pick a part. ( Nova’s for days to pick from then). I found a set of spacers laying on the ground where someone had pulled the suspension from one of the Nova’s. In my pocket they went.

 

@Johnny Gee likely put you on the right track, but I also want to point out that the items I highlighted above would most likely result in toe being way off. Simply measuring the length of the old tie rods and duplicating that on the new would not guarantee your toe being the same, given you've changed so many other components.

 

@Johnny Gee Thanks for pinpointing of the possible issue.
Sounds like it was a lesson 'driven' home!

 

Do you have the strut rods installed from the lower control arm to the front frame?

 

yes

 

Transferring the old tie rod lengths to the new set will get you close enough to make the alignment easier.

I never had the lower arms out of a Chevy II in all my years of doing alignments.

 

O.k . so I got the spacers but they don't fit in the bushing. Even the old ones don't fit.
I guess I need to ream the hole in bushing?

 

@Johnny Gee Do I put them in and crush them?

 

Sorry that you’re going through the rabbit hole of aftermarket redesign. In what I see each manufacturer is doing their own thing.

Did you verify that you have movement there before ordering parts?

Looking further into the pics I posted prior, read the notes on these that I said reminded me of how the GM Engineers designed them (back in the day) in appearance. https://www.classicindustries.com/p...MIqOTuu7vHjQMVvRCtBh1QQxpqEAQYBCABEgKOvvD_BwE

 

Yes the spacers are the problem. Now that I have new just need to figure out how to put back together.
Thanks for the link. I may as well buy them. It looks a lot easier than what I have.

 

To try and make what you have would be to start measuring the pocket the control arm fits into. While measuring the pocket be sure that the side walls are true and parallel left to right.

With that dimension compare it to the bushing with the end caps included. Maybe be just removing the excess material on the inner sleeve will make things work for you?

 

Looking back, wait on what I just said. That won’t work due to the male barbs of your old and new end caps.

 

I wish they came with rebuild kit. I just ordered them from rock auto. They should be here Monday.
I hate ordering kits. This should have been easy.
Why sell spacers separate? Why don't bushings come with them?
Assembly manual says nothing about them. Searched the net didn't find any more than what I knew.

 

That's why I always used Moog or Napa Gold parts. They came with the spacers and since it was their own parts, they fit.

The spacers on the Moog and Napa parts had to be tapped into place in the bushing sleeve with a hammer. They didn't just fall or snap in place, they had to be tapped with a hammer or a nice heavy C-clamp to squeeze them into the sleeve...

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