Projects Scott's Build Thread- '59 Apache 3100

I took a crap ton of pics. What would y'all like to see? Here are engine and associated pics. It's far too hot and humid to climb under the truck today, and I'm home sick, so these pics are all from above.















Please don't get hung up on the wiring! This is me tracing circuits and labeling everything so it can be rewired properly. It's what I was doing when I parked it a couple years ago. The engine runs amazing! Thanks for looking.

 

Sounds like you are a long ways down the road if you were to just finish up the wiring, get the steering tightened up, get brakes either rebuilt or swap to disks if that is what you would rather have, get the suspension rebuilt and then just do some cosmetic stuff. Oh, and sounds like the shifter linkage could also use a rebuild to get it shifting better? It is a very cool pickup and wouldn't take much to get it more enjoyable to drive.

Thanks for posting the pics. That helps us all know what you are working with.

 

The original steering box has two adjustments you can do, on the bottom of the box there’s a large “nut” that’s held in place with a metal lock ring with tabs on it, flatten the tabs (bubba speak coming) and use a chisel and hammer and snug the nut up. Just enough until you feel a resistance to the light taps on the chisel.
Then on the top of the box there’s another adjustment, break the lock nut loose, if memory serves, a flat blast screw driver adjusts the “bolt”.
Now when you do this part, put the tires in the air. Use the axle as the lift point.
Rotate the steering wheel, tighten the “bolt” with the screw driver. Go through lock to lock as soon as you feel the slightest drag, back the “bolt” off a bit. Maybe 10-15 degrees? I dunno, been many years since I’ve done it.
You don’t want to leave it tight, if too tight you’ll have steering issues, so sneak up on it and then back it off.
This just takes the play out of what you have, it’s not a cure for worn out parts.
There may be instructions in a service manual, Motors manual, not sure.
My dad had the know how and had me do it to the TF pickups I had. It did keep the trucks steering and holding the road much better.

 

Looks like an F
it has side mount provisions it’s a 57 283. If no side mounts it’s a 265.
Originally power glide according to internets info

Regular heads.

 

F 9 19 F, it looks like, so it would be from the beginning of either 56 or 57 model year. The casting date at the back will get you more info.

F at the front means it's from the Flint engine plant. 9 is the month it was assembled, 19 is the day it was assembled. F code was used for the 265 2bbl with powerglide in a car in 56, and 283 2bbl with powerglide in a car in 57. The casting date and casting number at the back of the block will tell you which, but that's usually hard to see when the engine is installed, and probably covered with dirt back there.

I see the mounts, sort of, looks like they welded a thick strap on top of the frame, hanging out in back to support the mount cushions, which I can't see at all.

Yes, the wiring is the place to start. It looks like it has the original wiring under there, with a big mess replacing part of it, and added onto it. I wonder if they still sell reproduction harnesses for a reasonable price? That's how I'd go, unless you intend to add a bunch of "stuff" to the truck, and want some fuses and more circuits. In that case, it'll take some effort to get it to what you want it to be.

When you get to the steering gear, first pull the plug and poke something in there and see what you find, you're looking for thin grease, not rusty globs. The nut and stud on the engine side of the box is the pitman shaft adjustment, if the threads on the screw in the middle are no longer visible, then it's likely that the bushings are worn out, and the screw has been adjusted in too far, to try to get it a bit tighter. But there could be more serious problems with it, which are easiest to diagnose by removing the gear and disassembling it. And having a good used one on hand to replace all the worn out parts

thanks for the pictures!

 

Thank you, @guthriesmith! Yes, I've completed a fair amount of the wiring, soldering new connectors and utilizing the original plugs. I've been using one particular vendor (can we mention vendors?) that has had everything I've needed thus far. I've already installed an updated fuse block, and everything under the dash is completed except the heater. Next, is to sort out the bird's nest I left and HOPEFULLY be able to read what I wrote on the tape!

 

I'll get into this and give it a looksee. I have the opposite problem, however. My steering is too tight, not loose. It feels like the adjustment has been overtightened, and the wheel is resistant(?), sluggish(?), not sure of the word to use? And I have those giant tires! I gotta do more research. I will probably do that "back off a bit" first and see what that nets me. I have made that mistake in my past myself. It's a crappy feeling trying to steer! I really appreciate the play by play instruction. It's just what I need. Thank you, @budget.

 

Wow! @anthony myrick, I did not even see those numbers! I got lucky catching them. I was looking at the boss on the head. I wouldn't have recognized them as an ID even if I HAD seen them. Thank you, sir. I can't see any side mounts, but the exhaust blocks the view pretty well. I'll crawl under for clarification. The PO told me it was a 283, but he also told me it had 130 miles on a very fresh rebuild. He definitely lied about that! But, it is very peppy!

 

265 vs the later blocks


But a 57 283 probably shouldn’t have the side mount bosses either
Showed up in 58

 

Thank you, @squirrel. Specifically, where on the back of the block? Do I remember reading passenger head? I'll do my best to get a picture. There's no such thing as a reasonably priced reproduction harness, in my way of thinking! And you are correct about the homemade motor mounts... I'll look for the pad you speak of.

Ya'll have given me a great start! Thanks so much. It will probably be Sunday before I can look at it. I'll let ya'll know what I find.

 

WOW! AWESOME! THANK YOU.

 

I added a side note.
58 should be the first year for side mounts.
Ive heard rumors of some late 57. I’m no expert

I posted the pic so you’d know what to look for

 

On the steering...beware that it could be the kingpins causing hard steering. Just another thing to check.
You could jack up the front axle and put it on stands, and then have someone wiggle the steering wheel back and forth. If it doesn't wiggle easily even a little bit, then it's probably the steering box. If it wiggles a little then gets hard to turn, likely the king pins. If it turns easily, then you just need more muscles in your arms to drive it. Or possibly the kingpin thrust bushings are seized.

 

I had crappy kingpins kill the steering once.

sucked

 

I have a late 57 235 with side mounts that came out of a 57 car . I know V8 mounts are being discussed.

 

In the one picture, doesn't look like there a side mount bosses in it. But, it could be my eyes.

 

I think you can have a best of both worlds approach. An old truck, that feels and drives like an old truck but is not sloppy and stops good

I think it’s a good idea to create a vision of features you want this truck to have, then build it with those features in mind. When ever you’re faced with an idea to ______, you can stack the idea up against the features you mapped out and it will guide you along the way to decide if you want to add a 650hp crate motor or a 283 with a mild RV cam.

For the front end, you can rebuild the stock suspension with a dropped axle, new steering box, new springs and disc brakes. Those are all bolt on upgrades that will improve the ride, steering and brakes.

The rear end, you can swap out to a later model (1970’s) truck rear end with better gears, grab some new Poisie’s springs, new shocks and you’re good to go.

lastly, you could rebuild the 283 and put a newer transmission. T5, 3 speed OD, 4 speed, TH350, 700R4…what ever you want. See which one fits your list of features.

While none of these are easy things to do, they are simple swaps a guy can do in phases while keeping the truck together. Do the front end work over a couple of weeks, then drive it. Do the rear end work over a couple of weeks, then drive it.

If you map out your vision, you can then start building a parts list which feeds your budget, throw some time at it and then figure out if it’s what you want to do.

 

Man that Apache looks solid, I'd get it running and roadworthy and drive it, (new wheels of course )

 

Hey Folks. I said I'd crawl under the truck and see if I had side mounts last Sunday, but the fact that it was Father's Day plumb evaded me! I didn't get it done, and then I still didn't get it done, and then I compromised and felt it up! Reaching down I cannot feel side mounts on this engine. I guess that makes it a 265? I didn't even know there was such an animal, and I always thought I was pretty savvy! Do people build 265s? It's remarkable to me how quick my truck is with this engine, and I have always thought it's a little more than stock.

My vision. Hmmm. It has wavered, over and over. I WOULD LOVE to have a classic truck that turns people's heads! I would love to have that perfect V8 rumble. I'm not trying to build a show truck, but my wife is the reason I own it, and she wants to drive it. My original plan was a mustang II front end (or Camaro clip, or Crown Vic). Rally wheels, gas tank relocation, modern interior, floor shifter. I was thinking a truck we could drive to visit our kids in different states. I just don't know how to start, what I can do myself, an order to things, so to speak. I own a 5.7 and 4L60E with under 3000 miles in a truck my son wrecked... I need to do something with it.

Y'all have indicated "fix it and drive it", and that makes perfect sense. We live rural. My wife is the county 4-H agent. I retired, got bored, and went back to work. I have a jeep hobby, and I have to reassemble one before I can pull the '59 into the shop. I'm still looking for a machine shop for the jeep engine. Can't find one!

I'm thinking fix my brakes first. Then rear main seal (probably a shop for that), then steering and suspension. This would put it on the road and make her smile! That's what I need to do now, me thinks? Question... do I need to replace the small aftermarket steering wheel with an original sized one? Seems like it would help. Also, do you all have specific places you like to shop for wheels, kits, e.t.c. I have been using Classic Parts primarily.

Sorry for this stupidly long post! I appreciate all your feedback.

 

The first 283s didn’t have side mounte

that truck will turn heads as is
as far as the newer engine, that’s up to you

I personally prefer 3 pedels
And old trucks driving like old trucks.

modern suspension isn’t discussed here.
Just a heads up

 

This thread will have some good info for you, I'm not sure where she ran off to but she did a good job documenting her build.

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...ck-suspension-axle-and-brake-project.1131871/

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Anthony, thank you, and apologies to everyone else.

Right now, my goal is to make it drivable, dependable in the best course of action. I respect the "old truck should drive like an old truck" manner of thinking, and I will pursue it.

 

Thank you, swade41. Started reading it and just kept going! This will be a great resource for me.

 

So, I guess I don't really know what engine I have? I will assume it's a 283. I don't have any plan to pull the engine so it's likely I won't see the casting numbers.

My "right now" plan is to purchase a front disc conversion kit with power booster. This will get my brakes fixed. Hopefully, the lines come apart without issue! Brake lines, historically, hate me. Should I purchase an original sized steering wheel?

Once I have it where it will stop, I will address the front suspension and steering.

If y'all see me going in the wrong direction, I would be happy if you bring me back on track. I'm looking forward to your feedback.

 

I would put an original size steering wheel unless you plan to swap to power steering.

 

I used the Speedway kit for my disc brakes on the 57, it went pretty smooth

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/building-a-57-chevy-shop-truck.1084369/page-7

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I have a Nova front subframe grafted to the stock frame, no regrets. The IFS rides and drives like a car with the “modern” steering geometry, power steering and front disc brakes. Combined with a TCI rear axle “flip” kit it has a nice static drop without the added complexity and expense of air ride. The only fabrication required was simple brackets added to the subframe to mount the ‘58 core support and a couple pieces of flat stock to mount the front bumper. The biggest expense was hiring a mobile welder to come out and burn it all together because I had neither the skill or equipment required to do it properly.

 

Cool! Thank you. I felt like I should but I don't want to spend unnecessary money.

Thank you for the link. I will study it and the previous one.

Yep, that's the look! I'll get there someday. First, we're gonna just drive it awhile. Are those louvers in your hood?? Beautiful truck.


Today, I swung into a pawn shop looking for an item. I was browsing the store while the owner took care of some paper work. He had a complete cam bearing driver set that I bought for 70 bucks. I haven't built an engine yet, but I guess I will be doing my jeep engine since every machine shop within an hours drive is no longer in business. Once I get the jeep out of the shop I'll pull my truck in and get started. Bear with me. This will be slow.

 

Happy belated 4th. We just got back from a trip visiting our new, and first, grand baby. On the return trip, we passed this out front of someone's yard. Thought I'd share. Snapped from a moving car... sorry it's not better.

 

That's a good looking truck! Good luck with it!