In collecting parts for my '22 Dodge project, I'm finding myself in a weird, unintended position of having almost all of the mechanicals from a 1937 Ford; complete drivetrain (21 stud), front axle (pics to come later), rear axle, X member...even the steering column. I'm not complaining at all, however I intended on running rod actuated mechanical brakes, but now I'm thinking I might stick with the cables. Does anyone know of any shortcomings of the cables over the rods? Or any examples of cable braked hot rods? Doesn't seem to be much info on these that I could find.
Do as you want it your car . Brakes and steering are the best safety up grades one can do when building a Hot Rod . The are plenty traditional juice brakes that I would choose over mechanical or cable operated . Cables stretch with use , this would end up as ill effects on the brakes stopping power , just not fun for me . Just my opinion , which isn’t worth 2 cents , in a candy store .
I had a Hupmobile with cable brakes. They were adjusted correctly. If you had to make a quick stop you never knew which direction it was going to pull to. With a slow stop they worked just fine and stopped straight. With todays traffic I would never have a hot rod with mechanical brakes.
I have a 31 roadster with mechanicals and a 39 pickup with hydraulics. If I didnt tell you, you wouldn't know the difference. Only bad thing I heard about the cable brakes is the cables stretched but those cars were a lot heavier than what your building.
European sports cars like Alvis, Bugatti and Bentley used cable brakes throughout the 30s. Extensively used in racing. Some had wing nuts on the end of the cables for quick adjustment.
Had a car with mechanical brakes once, and never again for me. It takes far too much space to stop safely, and every time I backed off to get it some jackass pulled into the safe space and left me vulnerable. I finally changed it all to hydraulic brakes.
I'd use the mechanical brakes if you don't drive over 30 mph and have no chance of hitting a kid who darts into the road. Hydraulics are better. Why do you think sll car manufactures are using them.
OK, guys, I appreciate the concern, but I'm not interested in opinions on hydraulic brakes vs mechanical; I've had 44 years of experience with juice brakes of some sort, be it on a motorcycle or car. This will be a very limited use car. I'm more interested in understanding, from experience, the advantages and disadvantages between cable and rod brakes on a "period built" type vehicle. I might as well stick an LS and 12" discs with a tig welded tube chassis if we're going to take the safest route.
From my experience of both rod and cable systems, the tricky bit is the steering. Ford got round it by having the push rod down the center of the king pin, which works great when set up correctly, I am on radial tyres on my model A and I can lock all 4 wheels if needs be. The big drawback is the fixed gemetry you need. Cable systems vary considerably in this area but alow for more creativity in the suspension. Alvis speed 20 used cable brakes on an independent front suspension in 1934. Bugatti used a pully system to get round the king pin. So lots to go at if you are designing your own.
It's going be mostly stock '37 Ford brake system, from what I can tell right now (push rod through king pin). I didn't realize Ford even made cable actuated brakes until I got into this car. I had originally intended on running regular rod actuated (Model A front end, frame/actuator rod, '34 rear backing plates, etc), but I lucked into some slightly later and more desirable hardware. Thanks for your input. I believe these brakes work well when set up correctly. If the adjustments are made evenly, and the shoes are arched and chamfered, drums true and all that good stuff. I've had Harley mechanical brakes that locked up just as well as juice. Just a little more meticulous set up.
I run mechanical brakes on two of my A bangers.. They stop very well...even slide the tires. They have been converted to cast iron drums from the original steel ones...one has bonded 'soft lining' and the other the braded oem riveted lining. The secret to success in mechanical braking is having all shoes contacting the drum at the same time on a foot peddle application...so it takes making sure all the linkage hardware on the backing plates, lever clevices, pins, cams, etc are all free of play from wear along with lever arms positioned for maximum mechanical advantage.... then it is spending time adjusting the actuating mechanism so that all play and arrive together at the same time I really like the idea that you are going to use mechanical service brakes... I would think that you might consider using something like Aeroshell grease or even a dry graphite lube on the cables and housings....the Areoshell grease is 'constant viscosity' even in low temperatures and doesn't bleed in high temperatures......and is good-im-slick and if you think about it.... aren't even modern day automotive emergency brakes mechanical?....I don't get the statements about cable stretching keep us updated
I'm following this because I am in the same boat. I'm rebuilding my wrecked Model A speedster with 1937 front and rear axles and adapting the cable brakes to fit. By the way, I was hit from the rear by a guy that never saw me, so the accident was not caused by the Model A mechanical brakes. I had gone through those and fitted the Flathead Ted floaters on the front brakes. They worked fine, I could lock all 4 wheels. The skinny tires were the limiting factor on my set up. Hard braking on the verge of locking up I had no problem staying straight and controlling the car.
Heck yeah, that's what I like to hear. Thanks for the info! It would seem to me like cable stretch would be an issue, based on motorcycle stuff, but I read on Ford Barn (from only one source) that it actually wasn't. I reckon I'll let you know soon. I spent quite a bit of time on my '65 Ironhead making sure everything worked right, since it's only two mechanical brakes on a unbalanced death missile. It skidded great, though. Once I get around to it, my '26T coupe will also sport mechanical brakes (rods) and a 4 banger.
VW bugs have cable-actuated clutch and a wing nut for adjustment, which I think was as much for cable stretch as clutch wear.
Mechanical brakes work fine, but like winduptoy said, take the time to get them really dialed in and prepare to do it often. I am being a little lazy in adjusting mine and I can feel the brakes getting worse. With them set up properly and adjusted I can't imagine how a hydraulic system would actually work any better. These cars are so lightweight you don't need much braking power to lock the wheels up.
Father-in-laws '37 stopped just as well as a later Lockheed juice brake car. If you feel you need more you could always upgrade to some Bendix self-energizing cable brakes from a Lincoln. Good components and correct adjustment is the key to good braking with mechanical brakes whether rod or cable.
I have had several Model A's since 1968 and when mechanical brakes are in tip top shape they will work fine if you keep your speed down, remember 50 mph in 1929 was fast. That being said, most Model A's that I have owned needed a complete rebuild. Every bushing, lever, cam, roller, wedge etc. must be replaced or it won't work properly. Every 1/16th inch of play and wear will add up and make stopping an adventure. It simply is not worth worrying about, convert to hydraulics.
Just learned something. Didn’t know that there were self-energizing mechanical brakes on Lincolns. Those with a pulley equalizer setup and a proper mechanical advantage in the overall design should stop just as well as hydraulic brakes when adjusted properly
I have cable brakes. They work just fine. Yes, they require careful adjustment, as with any mechanical brake system. No, they are not suited for modern highway speeds or wild traffic. Nor are these sort of cars/builds. With your experience and understanding, All Good!
Those Lincoln brakes are kinda unknown. Picture out of an old manual for reference. Ran across them while my kid was getting an old Zephyr to roll.
Ive circuit raced vintage cars with mechanical brakes and they can be very good, I have no issue driving them on the road. Their problems are exactly the same as hydraulic brakes; condition and maintenance. I’m quite convinced that loads of people fit things like hydraulic brakes or change the drums for disc or put an LS in or fuel injection instead of the double pumper and then exclaim how great the “modern” update is when in reality their original component was just completely knackered. Having said that if you’re designing your own system, hydraulic is way easier as you’ve not got to take account of axle movement etc.
The only part of my system I'm designing is fitting early Ford stuff (32-39) to a Model A chassis. I have the option to swap backing plates for lever or cable actuated brakes, but I just haven't seen many cable brake hot rods. It looks like either is the same as the other as far as reliability, which was my original, rambling question. So, the path of least resistance means I will run 1937 cable actuated, since that's what's the most complete on my car right now. I've been stranded due to mechanical and electronic parts before. There's a better chance of rigging something to get home with mechanical. Electronic parts aren't normally by-passable with bailing wire if you're 27 miles from home! Simplicity seems to have been pushed aside for convenience. Thanks everyone. I will carry on. The two times I've been hit from behind were by modern hydraulic braked vehicles. The two times MY brakes have completely failed have been hydraulic braked vehicles. I'm not sure what your point is.
I’ve been collecting parts for an early racecar project. It’s a hodgepodge of early parts but the rear is a ford banjo that I’ll be putting 36 brakes on. I’m going to actuate them with rods instead of cables. I have and have had multiple mechanical brake hot rods. I’ve driven a mechanical brake model A (with 32-34 brakes) over 80 mph on the highway repeatedly for a summer and don’t really care who would t want to be on the road around my car haha it stopped well. Definitely as well as any car with 40 ford type brakes that I also have extensive experience with.
The Jalopy Journal
