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History stock car evolution [scale model research]

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by s.e.charles, Jul 7, 2025.

  1. s.e.charles
    Joined: Apr 25, 2018
    Posts: 368

    s.e.charles

    went through the historic stock cars photo thread (now inactive) and my curiosity piqued,
    to wit: when cars transformed from street ready with basically a taped X over the headlights and the back seat removed to a cut-away fenders, pony wheel, fully bar-protected body, was it from class designation/ requirements, organizational specifications, or simply a safety consideration due to speed improvements?

    there's a certain era car which interests me, but then when corporate & big racing kicks in, it kicks me out.

    thanks,

    s.e.
     
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  2. dana barlow
    Joined: May 30, 2006
    Posts: 5,359

    dana barlow
    Member
    from Miami Fla.
    1. Y-blocks

    May not be of help?
    My Uncle Irv ,raced "Stock Car/Jalopys" right after WW2 {maybe before as well ? ].
    I got storys about it from him. He showed me how to drive,his homemade doodlebug model A tractor* on his lap @ 5 ,tell I could work the pedals latter{ shift gears n stuff ]{ I'm 84 now }. His Jalopy racer had a roll bar an chest belt. Not much,but enough at the time. Oval dirt track 1/4 mile is what he raced on.. This pic is very close to how it looked,but snow chains on rear too of doollebug. Wish I could find jalopy better photo! Top Class at track was Roadster,sedans was a lower class.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2025
  3. gene-koning
    Joined: Oct 28, 2016
    Posts: 5,329

    gene-koning
    Member

    The old saying used to be "rubbing was racing". In the early days, the cars were mostly all stock, as they left the factory. The X tape on the headlights are such often kept the glass from breaking, or maybe held the glass together if it broke, so it didn't fall onto the racing surface. The race cars tended to bump each other, and often in side by side racing would rub the sides together, usually not on purpose (but sometimes was), but more because of two cars trying to occupy the same space at the same time. In the early days, precision control didn't exist, not all drivers were experienced, the tracks were rough, and the cars bounced around, contact happened.

    As the racing progressed, most tracks allowed the cars to remove the glass lights and most of the chrome trim. Many tracks started to required roll bars or roll cages to protect the drivers. The side by side rubbing grew more "normal" as the car speeds increased, and that tended to bend up the sides of the cars. Often between the side rubbing and larger tires (many sticking outside of the car body) caused most of the cars to have larger wheel openings to reduce the damage that was causing the cars to not finish races.
    The track rules were often different from one track to the next, or from one region to another. That is why there were so many different variations between one car at one track and one car at a different track, that could have been racing on the same day. Larger track size and the higher speeds associated with each track, also had a huge effect of how the cars were built. Between the track rules, the track size, and how aggressive the racers at the given track were, the cars had different forms of protective equipment, for both certain parts of the cars, and for the drivers. Add to that the fact that there became several different levels of racing, each with a specific set of rules dividing the cars into "classes" or groupings of cars that competed against each other. Many tracks has two or more classes. Many current tracks may run 5 or more classes a night, with different set of classes on a different night. The vehicles in each those classes may be completely different from the vehicles in the other classes.

    At the track we raced at, one year our class of cars were only allowed minimal car and driver protection. One year I had to build 4 cars to make through one racing season. The cars were pretty simple, and some parts could be moved from the wrecked car into the "new" car, but it was a lot of work. The next year our class was allowed more driver and more car protection. The one car I build following those rules lasted 2 full seasons. The same class at the same track with one off season between, two completely different cars. The first season, stripped down street cars with a 4 point roll cage, the 2nd season, a race car with a full front to rear cage, cut out wheel openings, wide tires, and reinforced front and rear bumpers.
     
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  4. s.e.charles
    Joined: Apr 25, 2018
    Posts: 368

    s.e.charles

    fantastic; thank you for the insight from a man who was there.

    Q: are there more pictures of the avatar car? i don't know how to make it bigger.

    thanks again for detailing the "why" behind the look.

    sid
     
  5. gene-koning
    Joined: Oct 28, 2016
    Posts: 5,329

    gene-koning
    Member

    Sid, my old 48 Plymouth business coupe is a street version of my vision of the style of dirt track cars that used to race in our area in the early to mid 60s. I was 10 years old when these car raced at our local track, but the memory of them is burned into my memory. These old race cars are what got me through high school and are the reason I became a mechanic and a welder. This car is my tribute towards the era of dirt track racing I remembered. My wife and I drove this car all over the country. My Avatar and the 1st picture posted here, the car is 1300 miles from home at the Rocky Mountain National Park in CO, in 2016
    Though this car never saw life as a race car, I hit the vision of the time frame pretty well. We were driving through Dodge City Iowa and stopped at the Walmart there. An older man came running across the parking lot to look the car over. He insisted that my car used to be the car his buddy raced back in the early 1960s. He was so sure it was the car from his memory that he kept asking where I got Hal's old race car from. I ended up telling him I bought the car from a fence line in a western Chicago suburb (the truth) but, wasn't so sure it was Hal's car. He was happy with that.
    100_1001.JPG
    P1010121.JPG
    P1010120.JPG
    The 2nd picture is the last picture of this car in its original after build colors. shortly after that picture it went in to have some work done on it. The car was originally built in 2011, went through 27 different states, and logged 80,000 miles, by that time.
    100_0908.JPG
    The car as it looked after the redo in 2018. It pretty much looks the same today, but is a bit more weathered.
    Bonus picture, the car along the fence line in that western Chicago suburb.
    48 coupe 001.jpg
    And a poor picture of a picture of the car before the blue & white paint.
    100_0996.JPG
    Probably more then you wanted, and probably not what you expected, but here it is.
     
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  6. s.e.charles
    Joined: Apr 25, 2018
    Posts: 368

    s.e.charles

    not at all; perfect story!

    the front bumper certainly means business. it's interesting how the car appears big & lunky along the fence, but how it's transformed into a spirited steed after the improvements. i am familiar with a '41 Plymouth style, but not the '48.

    i must research the brand in that time frame more.

    most modelers spend 10% of their time doing research, and 90% building.
    i'm about 80% versus 20%.
    but i'm pretty happy so i guess that's what hobbies are for.

    thanks so much for taking the time to share this car's, oh, and yours, too, stories.

    s.e.
     
  7. gene-koning
    Joined: Oct 28, 2016
    Posts: 5,329

    gene-koning
    Member

    The 46-48 Plymouth bodies were carried over from the 42 body, which was slightly revised from the 41 Plymouth body (all 3 pretty much the same car), as was pretty typical with most automotive brands during that time. The USA got involved with WW2 in Dec 1941. All automotive production was converted toward the war effort. At the end of the war, in 1945, the US auto industry made simple modifications to the 41 and very early 42 model year cars and reproduced them after the war for the US public that badly needed new automobiles. Most of the new car (and truck) offerings up until the 1949 model year were rehashed 41 & 42 offerings (a few cars changed in the 48 model year, many truck lines were updated first).

    The biggest difference between a 41 and a 46 was the lower rocker area. The later version curved the body outward to eliminate the running boards (see the fence line picture). That factory modification didn't survive well over the years since, you can see the rockers on my car are not curved outward. In the fence line picture you can see what remains of the driver side curved rocker area (door and rear quarter panel in front of the rear fender). The passenger side of my 48 had already been cut off above the taped line seen on the lower drivers door and the panel behind the door. The metal that remained below the taped line was so rusted you could crumble it with your fingers.
     
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  8. 29Sleeper
    Joined: Oct 25, 2023
    Posts: 395

    29Sleeper
    Member
    from SoCal

    There were always different levels and the area you were in somewhat dictated what was run - down south was doing long laps in their "delivery" cars on the beach. Out west they were running jalopies on short ovals. Just about anything 10 years old was considered race car material for the budget minded. By the 60s the lines were starting to blur and manufacturers were throwing money at racing and even little guys were getting some help - generally with ideas and parts.
     
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  9. s.e.charles
    Joined: Apr 25, 2018
    Posts: 368

    s.e.charles

    i remember in the late '60s & maybe a year or two into the '70s going to Seekonk Speedway in Massachusetts. cars didn't look any special way since they always looked like that at this tender but brief period in my life so i accepted them as "the benchmark" and focused on the "roar" of both cars & crowd.

    the 1973 or 74 gas crunch put all of our enthusiasm to the test, and on the other side, well, Pintos & Vegas no matter how nicely lettered, were Not "stock cars" to this mother's son!
     
  10. Go back to the birth of NASCAR. Even earlier in the hill country of North Carolina.

    The 'shine runners would take their "business" cars and run them against others in the business. Roll down the windows, tape up the lights, put on a helmet and go for it.

    With luck they'd be able to drive the cars home after the races.

    Some drivers would "borrow" a car from a family member, with the promise that the car would be unscathed at the end of the night.

    Of course this was an evolution to race-only cars and the advent of rule books and classes.
     
  11. s.e.charles
    Joined: Apr 25, 2018
    Posts: 368

    s.e.charles

    years back i read up on the origination of NASCAR and founders. i really liked the parts before the formal association started making it big. it's certainly reminiscent of any hobby which becomes a business.

    sounds like those OG guys had stones.
     
  12. gene-koning
    Joined: Oct 28, 2016
    Posts: 5,329

    gene-koning
    Member

    My 1st dirt track car was built in 1976. It was a 69 Plymouth with a big block motor, in the hobby stock class (factory available parts only). Racing at our local track was healthy and did well during the entire 70s gas deal. Our track was a long 1/2 mile "dirt"(measures around the inside edge and had a clay racing surface, very fast), it had 2 long straights and 2 wide, banked U turns. My old Plymouth with 70 series tires was turning low 28 second timed laps.
     
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  13. s.e.charles
    Joined: Apr 25, 2018
    Posts: 368

    s.e.charles

    the '48 has panache; i'm going to make believe the '69 was just borrowed for the "season". thanks for the measurement point of reference. in all honesty, i fiured it would have been at the center of the track lane and encouraged racers to hug the inside so their lap would be shorter. an advantage they lost coming out of the far turn and were tossed towards the fence.

    ya gotta admit i have a vivid imagination.

    Q: were all tracks banked? i can't see how flat tracks would hold the pack.

    Q2: anyone remember the track at the Kingston Fairgrounds in West Kingston, RI?

    i had a friend who lived near, and if i stayed overnight we'd ride bikes over to where it was located and relived something we had never seen. kids, huh? around 1965. i don't know when it was shut down and allowed to grow over. maybe a rumor, but i think there was a walk under to get to the infield.

    thanks,
    sid
     
  14. gene-koning
    Joined: Oct 28, 2016
    Posts: 5,329

    gene-koning
    Member

    Most of the race tracks are measured around the outside, at the wall, if they were actually measured at all. The promoters like to have people think the tracks are larger and faster then they may have been. They like to make claims that their track was the fastest 1/2 mile (or 1/4 mile, or 3/8 mile) track in the area. A high bank smaller 1/2 mile might be faster then a long 1/2 mile medium banked track, you accepted those claims with a grin. Few tracks were actually flat, the process of the cars going into the corners then accelerating out of them often created some banking, even on mostly flat tracks. Nearly flat tracks made it really hard to pass on, so often the races were often a follow the leader around the inside edge kind of track. A banked track was often faster, and if the person that graded the track knew what he was doing, that track could have 2 or 3 wide competitive racing. A lot of the banked tracks had progressively higher banking as you got closer to the outside. On those tracks, that inside lane may be almost flat, and then the banking curved upward as you moved closer to the outer edge. The race around the inside was a shorter distance, but was harder on the car. A car running up towards the upper edge might be able to carry more speed through the corner, making up for the longer distance.
    Car set up became more important as time passed and the cars got faster. Very few tracks were completely like, every track I've been at has its own perks, and most had its own path around that was faster, and that path could change as the night progressed and was probably slightly different the next week.
     
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  15. s.e.charles
    Joined: Apr 25, 2018
    Posts: 368

    s.e.charles

    all of that is quite fascinating to me. so all of these nuances would certainly give a "home town advantage" to the fellows that consistently raced one track as opposed to the team that trucked in from a state away for a special event.

    reminds me of the tenet "building is a craft not a science, and yet, there is a science of building."

    interesting to note following the grading process, the section through the car/ track contact area was not a flat one if the bank rose to the outside, but perhaps a section of ellipse. maybe a softer packed section, since less pressure x centrifugal force was exerted the further away from the main lane of travel.

    no less scary is the thought of a lane so narrow there may be spots where there might not be an escape if the fellow adjacent either chose to, or mechanical failure caused, a change in trajectory at sixty and another drive had no safe dodge available. to paraphrase: " not rubbin', not racin' "

    through some YouTube searching, i have been made to realize my terminology may have been incorrect throughout the thread, starting with the title.

    Q: is what commonly referred to as "jalopy racing" the same as "stock car racing" just with different
    modifications allowed across the classes?

    i may be guilty of the Kleenex instead of tissue, Xerox instead of copy machine, or the worst offence of all: motor instead of engine.

    or, offering me safe haven, are the two terms used interchangeably - no harm no foul?

    thanks,
    s.e.

    addendum: i've also requested some inter-library loan books, both new & one or two i have already read, so hopefully my questions will get better as time goes on.

    appreciate everyone's help & patience.
     
  16. gene-koning
    Joined: Oct 28, 2016
    Posts: 5,329

    gene-koning
    Member

    The difference between "jalopy racing" and "stock car racing" are probably more of a time frame term then of a different meaning term.

    Back in the 40s & 50s, "jalopy racing" was the catch all phrase that indicated that older salvaged street cars were going to race, and tended to cover most forms of oval track racing. That would be opposed to the "champ car racing" of the same era that meant those were real race cars designed and built specifically for racing.

    By the early 60s the cars were all starting to be purposely built, and different racing classes emerged so similar cars could race against similar cars. The term "stock car racing" became the catch all term that covered the classes of racing that took place at each track. Jalopy racing became a thing of the past (except for places like here :D, or other historic sites).

    By the late 60s and early 70s, the term "stock cars" began to indicate the cars racing looked like the cars that appeared on the streets of your town, and the separated classes became their own identification. There were tracks in some regions that didn't race "stock cars" at all, they may have raced groupings of similar racing classes.

    Currently, very few tracks advertise Stock Car Racing. Terms like Late Models, Hobby Stock, and Modifieds have replaced the term "stock car".
     
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  17. gene-koning
    Joined: Oct 28, 2016
    Posts: 5,329

    gene-koning
    Member

    Your analyses of the effects of the track banking are pretty accurate.
    Let me add a couple more fun facts.
    Each lap does tend to develop an ellipse the car follows through the turns. A driver can change the path of that ellipse by how he enters the corner.
    The only way a driver can keep the car low through the entire turn is to slow down and enter the turn quite a bit slower, but if the car is set up right to do that, the driver can full power off the turn and drift high entering the straight.
    If he enters the corner fast and low on the track, the car tends to drift upwards at the apex of the turn and the car comes off the corner high on the track.
    If the driver enters the corner with less speed but high on the track, he can often drive the car lower through the apex of the turn, and sometimes gain a lot of speed off the banking, but the car will drift high exiting the turn. As you can see, each ellipse crosses the paths of the other ellipses. Physics say two cars cannot occupy the same place at the same time. someone backs off a bit, or the car bump (sometimes pretty hard), or they just miss each other, lap after lap. The fun thing is, both ends of the track may be completely different, and the driver may only be able to use just one specific ellipse for each turn. Then add that the fastest ellipse for one car may not be the fastest ellipse for the other car.
    Put 2 or 3, or 4 cars together, each trying for that lead position through a 10 lap race is very exciting for the spectators, the drivers, and the crew of help attached to each car.
    Now, imaging ending up in the 3rd place of that 4 car race above. Are you not going to spend the entire next week trying to figure out how to make your car come out on top next week? What can be done to the car, or what could the driver have done differently?
    Racing is an addiction.
     
  18. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 7,931

    tubman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I have a dirt modified built in 1965 that I vintage raced for 20 years. This car was the last of a series of "stock cars" built and raced by the Thurmer Brothers of Jackson, MN in the fifties and sixties. The car in the lower right of the newspaper article is their first attempt, the second picture is of the car they built and ran immediately before the one I now own, which is in the third picture. They were quite successful running an 324 ci Oldsmobile engine in the penultimate car, but it wasn't quite there. The last car was almost 500 pounds lighter the its predecessor. Also, despite it's "rough and ready" appearance, it was an all-out racing machine, with an in-out box, a Frankland quick-change rearend, full-floating hubs on all four corners, and even a specially ground Iskenderian camshaft. This last car was extremely successful, winning the "Minnesota State Stock Car Championship in 1966 and 1967" (fourth picture).

    This how it went in Minnesota and Iowa back in those days.


    To the mods : Can you "clean up the pictures on this post? Rotate the newspaper page (It looks fine on my computer and in "EDIT", but comes out 90° off in the post). Also, change all pictures to "Full" size. I am usually able to do this myself, but this one's got me. There are obviously 4 images, but in "EDIT"mode it only shows 3, and all are marked "FULL" in "EDIT", but they come out as thumbnails.
    Jackson Paper 2.jpg
    View attachment 6451989 Old 102.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 10, 2025
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  19. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 7,931

    tubman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Since I am having so much trouble with pictures, I thought I'd start anther thread with some that may be of interest. The first is a program cover showing that indeed, they were called "Stock Cars" although the correct label in modern terms would be "Modified".

    And because this is ultimately about models, I thought I'd post a few pictures of models that were made of this car. At least three companies made "commercial" models of the car (DTR, Ertl, and Monogram?). These modes are not very accurate, but at least have the numbers and lettering right. Another, much more accurate model was made by Curt Thurmer (the grand-nephew and grandson of the original builders) and is shown sitting on the tire of the original car. Also, I have included a "pin-back" button used by the sponsors of the track (The American Legion) as an admittance token in 1966. Last, I have include the first page of the newspaper feature in the previous post.
    Program0Page1.jpg Jezebel.jpg Model1.jpg Model3.jpg Model5.jpg NephewsModel.jpg Pinback Button.jpg Jackson Paper 1.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 10, 2025
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  20. I grew up in the early days. Roadsters were top billing for some time, but by the time I was old enough to go racing, not as a spectator, the coupes and sedans had kinda took over. Eventually, cut down coupes took over the top spot. That's what I was into.


    Roadsters.jpg Full Field.jpg early bear ridge.jpg
     
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  21. s.e.charles
    Joined: Apr 25, 2018
    Posts: 368

    s.e.charles

    this entire time frame is an exceptionally helpful perspective by putting things in a chronological order of development.

    i'll probably leave the thread title alone, considering after no small amount of introspection, i'm really asking questions about "jalopy racing."

    perhaps i can attribute some of my confusion to my father. we never really had a decent car when i was growing up. when my mother was not around, he would refer to whichever one we had at the time as "the sh!t-box." when mom was within earshot, he would affectionately call it "my jalopy."

    easy to see how a kid could get mixed up; no?

    thanks for the timeline; good stuff.

    sid
     
  22. s.e.charles
    Joined: Apr 25, 2018
    Posts: 368

    s.e.charles

    despite a shaky start, you seemed to have gotten the 'picture thing' down. that's some bit of history you've packing into that post. must have been something to be running with that crown at the height of their activity. thanks for sharing all the goodies.

    sid
     
  23. s.e.charles
    Joined: Apr 25, 2018
    Posts: 368

    s.e.charles

    i think i would want a little something overhead even if it was just for show. never wanted to be "thrown-clear" if there was a chance of hanging on to something.

    the coupes & sedans picture is worthy of a wall size reproduction.

    thanks for sharing,

    s.e.
     
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  24. Roof ? we don't need no stinking roof. LOL Heck... some didn't even need helmets or goggles. Not only that, some of those race tracks were Sketchy at best. Nothing like racing uphill and then back down. :eek:



    no helmet.jpg what a track.jpg
     
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  25. s.e.charles
    Joined: Apr 25, 2018
    Posts: 368

    s.e.charles

    "... feel the tension, man, what a ride..."

     
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  26. The answer depends on many factors.

    -NASCAR or Outlaw

    Region of the country and even the area of a State some parts of NY stayed flathead/6 cylinder well into 1960s!
    In fact the NY State Fair race was Flathead/6 cylinder until 1966 when some of the top runner in the state were already running Big Blocks!


    Are you talking Stock Cars or the Strictly Stock (Later Grand National, then Winston Cup, Sprint/Nextel Cup and now The Cup Series) division of NASCAR?

    Stock Cars production based race cars as opposed to propose built race car Big Cars/Champ/Indy Cars, Sprint Cars, and Midgets.

    When NASCAR was founded in 1948 it was to unite the weekly short track, with a set of unform rules, procedures, and to protect the car owners and drivers from shady promotors who would leave during the races all the grandstand money leaving no money to pay the purse!

    When NASCAR formed in 1948 there were two divisions Sportsman and Modified.

    Sportsman Rules-

    Single Carburetor, Gasoline, Battery Ignition and a maximum cubic inch limit.

    Modified Rules-

    Any form of induction (muti carb, fuel injection, superchargers) Gasoline or Alcohol, Magnetos legal unlimited cubic inch.

    These rules changed over the years.

    The Strictly Stocks came the following year in 1949!

    However Stock Cars themselves predate not just NASCAR but W.W. II

    Lloyd Seay (Say) on the Daytona Beach 1941, Seay was the Richard Petty of his day however his career would be cut short as he was shot to death by his cousin Woodrow Anderson on September 2 1941 in a dispute over Moonshine.

    Note the headlight covers in 1941
    upload_2025-7-12_22-16-13.png


    NASCAR required windshields, and fenders however here in the Northeast they were often cut/radiused/abbreviated as seen in this promotional photo for Fonda Speedway (1/2 mile dirt) 1953 (NASCAR Sportsman)
    upload_2025-7-12_22-53-5.png

    However the Southern Cars tended to run full fenders and hoods, like Glenn "Fireball" Roberts

    upload_2025-7-12_23-2-5.png

    By the late 60 the Northern cars were running a tiny piece of sheet metal over the front and rear wheel and a very small windshield.

    Andy Romano's Modified his car ran Fonda (dirt) Malta and Utica-Rome (both asphalt) upload_2025-7-12_23-36-22.png
    upload_2025-7-12_23-50-34.png
    Ray Hendrick's Modified Southern car
    upload_2025-7-12_23-40-46.png

    NASCAR still required windshields though the 1960s

    Pete Corey's bodied Falcon
    upload_2025-7-12_23-6-22.png

    Even in the 1970 my dad's NASCAR late model had to run a windshield the car ran Fonda 1/2 mile dirt
    upload_2025-7-12_23-11-4.png


    Outlaw cars were a completely different animal I will post about them tomorrow its late and I am tired.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2025
  27. s.e.charles
    Joined: Apr 25, 2018
    Posts: 368

    s.e.charles

    that's a LOT of information Mr. Robert; thank you & for posting the photos especially the early black'n'white shots.

    [​IMG]

    i've got to hand it to the fellow doing a "Joey Chitwood" up on two wheels and can only say i hope he recovered. the headlight covers on the ole #11 are quite the thing.

    for some reason i thought NASCAR was formed in the late '50s, so your chronology and information

    of class rules is helpful. it's funny how i like the bumpers & cut aways on the bodies, but when the whole 'exo-skeleton' makes an appearance i don't find an attraction. that being said, i have never locked wheels going in a circle at 65 mph, either. i imagine the drivers would not concur with my
    perspective!

    i forced myself to watch "Thunder Road" the other night. yes; a snippet of good but a long way to find it.

    thanks again for the information; much appreciated.

    sid
     
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  28. The Outlaw/smaller sanctioning body rules are where it gets complicated.

    NASCAR always had a no cloth roof rule; the cars had to have full steel factory roof. However, there was a promotor option rule which meant the track or race promotor could allow these cars to run.

    They also had a rule that no NASCAR owner or driver could run and outlaw event

    Car owner Bob Mott with local hero driver Jeep Herbert took avenge of this rule by building a 33 Ford first with a Flathead then with a 292 Y-Block when everyone else was still running flatheads!

    upload_2025-7-13_7-4-46.png

    Jeep with the checked flag after the change to the Y-Block
    upload_2025-7-13_7-5-58.png

    Jeep left the Bob Mott and popular driver Pete Corey took over and continued the cars winning ways.
    However, Pete Corey was an anti-hero and often ran a fowl of NASCAR, and after Corey won Langhorn with the car Bob Mott received a letter from NASCAR saying the car was illegal because of the factory steel roof rule.
    All the car's wins would stand but it would no longer be allowed to run in any NASCAR sanctioned events!

    This ruling infuriated Corey!
    upload_2025-7-13_7-8-21.png


    As for outlaw cars the rules varied wildly state to state, areas a state and even track to track!

    The classes Modified and Sportsman were sometimes known as A Class (Modified) and B Class (Sportsman), and many times there was no rule regrading windshields, fenders, or rules on bodies.


    This led to a hodge podge of body types and styles racing together.

    The following are photos of Cental NY/Souther Teir (Binghamton) Norther Penn, cars.
    upload_2025-7-13_7-26-12.png upload_2025-7-13_7-27-19.png upload_2025-7-13_7-27-57.png upload_2025-7-13_7-28-34.png upload_2025-7-13_7-30-22.png upload_2025-7-13_7-29-26.png upload_2025-7-13_7-30-56.png

    Compared to the Outlaw cars that raced at Lebanon valley speedway between Albany NY and Pittsfield Mass.

    Note how some of the cars have windshields and some don't this was because of rule changes over the years.
    upload_2025-7-13_7-41-45.png upload_2025-7-13_7-42-17.png
    upload_2025-7-13_7-38-42.png
    upload_2025-7-13_7-35-58.png
     
    s.e.charles likes this.
  29. s.e.charles
    Joined: Apr 25, 2018
    Posts: 368

    s.e.charles

    absolutely fantastic; thank you. i can glean more from these still shots than all of the YT videos watched. frankly, some of the modifications look more dangerous than if they were not performed.

    i snagged the "field" picture [fourth from the bottom] for my computer screen background - hope that's okay with you. if not i can delete.

    how/ why would a late model body [yellow roof chevy?] be allowed to run with all of the early models, or was it only rules compliance which governed?

    there's a lot to process in this post; i'll be back after a while!

    thanks again,

    s.e.
     
  30. Track rules and the modifications made to the car and engine.

    The following photos of the Fonda late model class Points awarded as NASCAR hobby stock) the rule for this class were the same at Albany-Saratoga (Malta) and Utica-Rome speedway

    The rule for these cars-
    -Since they were hobby stocks no windshield was required
    -Any post war body
    -Body and Engine manufacture had to match
    -Any engine to 1960 (Chevy could run 265, 283 or 348, Ford Y-Block or 352 F.E.)
    -Frames did not have to match engine or body 53/54 Chevys were the hot ticket for oval track cars in this area.
    -Stright axles (often early Ford with a Flamke spring(s) set up
    -Quick Change rears were legal
    upload_2025-7-13_11-24-22.png upload_2025-7-13_11-24-52.png
    upload_2025-7-13_11-22-41.png
    upload_2025-7-13_11-21-32.png upload_2025-7-13_11-22-11.png


    Other tracks required late models (as did the NASCAR Late Model class) to have the Chassis, Engine and body match, windshields they also had to run the stock front suspension some tracks allowed Q.Cs in late models some did not.

    If the Fonda late models when to other tracks were true Late Model rules the Fonda cars had to run as Sportsman.
     
    s.e.charles likes this.

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