I've been gathering pieces for various projects. The one that has most of my attention right now is a Model A Roadster pick up for TRoG. It'll be a stripped down hot rod, built to go as fast as I'm capable. I've gathered up several of each brand of engine. The Hemi's are 1954 dated and without the cumbersome factory bell. All of the Olds engines are 324. I don't want aftermarket heads. I prefer the old school way. The Hemi block, crank and rods are tougher than woodpecker lips, but, I don't mind buying a crank and rods for the Olds. Which way would you go and why? What's the ceiling rpm on the Olds? Can it rival the Hemi in upstairs power? I do have good adapter parts for the transmissions and can go just about any direction. I still need to learn about which clutch set ups are best though. New to actually posting here after lurking for quite a few years. Thank you to anyone who takes their time to post. WadeO
What your idea of fast ? This is really going to depend on what your dong to the inside of the engine . If your willing to bore , by new higher compression pistons forged piston's ( about $1000 ) . cam then the needed timing cover to run the later style cam snout , intake then the Hemi can make some serious HP . Stock pistons at 7.5 to one or what ever, its about a 190 HP engine in the sock form and low compression and you will spend a bunch for a good after market intake when you find one . I'm working on getting a 54 331 ready for a 31 A PU Its going to be pretty stock . Need a intake Hate to say it but either choice unless you spend an chunk of money is going to get smoked by a cheap SBC and inthe case of the Hemi abiut 200 pounds lighter . Yea I know not what you want
Unless your running nitro, the Olds doesn't need a different crank or rods, although you might use later model Olds parts with a longer stroke (I didn't refresh my memory on that point tho)
As with any build I've ever been involved in, it seems to swell with time. like most of us, I've had some good running sbc's for cheap. but, following the TRoG rules, they're not allowed as its '54 and older drivetrain. It'll get the good parts it needs, so pistons and valvetrain are a given I'd think with either combo. Want to run it naturally aspirated with alcohol if it gets injected. If I stay with carbs, it'll be race gas. I do have a '54 iron hemi intake.... And thank you for responding.
Its easy to spend someone else's money. I believe the Hemi has a more robust bottom end then the Olds motors have, if turning higher rpm is in the cards. If you are limited to 54 production induction systems, and production exhaust systems, that probably takes the rpm issue off the table. Neither motor will be cheap to build, in stock configuration, both made about the same HP (the Hemi a bit more). I suspect the Hemi is a bit heavier, that could be its down fall in a heads up run in the same vehicle. Spending your money, I'd run the Hemi. It looks cooler.
, it If its a late 54 Hemi with the short bell like mine, it has wet intake manifold and is a lot of trouble to run some other intakes unless you use 55 Hemi heads that have the water ports in the head or maybe a remote thermostat housing?If you don't have a wet intake for the hemi, theyre kind of hard to find. Will have more options for intakes with the Olds.
Don Garlits ran Olds until he broke one, one night. At the advice of one of his crew he ran the Hemi from his truck. He never looked back after that.
If this is a TRoG project...I know they have some pretty strict and limiting rules considering OHV engines. I'd check with them first.
This. There are also unwritten rules, and favoritism, that goes into deciding which cars are able to race there. It's a private club managed event, they don't have to accept anyone. IME they tend to be highly Ford flathead V8 and banger focused, not so much with OHV engines, at least at the beach events.
Correct! I have a friend with a nasty 34 Ford 3 window and runs a period correct GMC 6-cyl. They wouldn't let him run because of Motor choice.
I'm not even sure what the TROG rules are anymore. For the longest time it was '54 and earlier Flathead V8s, not OHV engines. Lately I've been seeing some OHV engines but I have no idea what's appropriate to use and what isn't. To start with, I'd get a concrete answer from Mel or someone with the race. Last year a guy with a Y block powered rail almost went through the fence at the end of the shut down area. Not sure if or how that affects their decision. The thing about TROG is that it's fake racing. It's a fun, beautiful event. But the racing is about as real as WWF is to wrestling. You'll get more speed out of a welded diff than you will more horsepower. Both engines are great choices, though I'm personally partial to the Olds. But if they're going to let you run, I'd imagine it needs to be a legit 303. If you've got aftermarket heads on either engine, it's a moot point because they're not going to let you race.
I look at it like this, TROG is an event that seems to have a Target goal of keeping things Old alive. It's much like the HAMB here. If you want to play in our yard you Must play by our rules. TROG racing really isn't racing, it's playing with old race stuff of the powers to be own choices. Sorry, not my thing so I don't go, yes I have Old Race shit. I'll play with it on my own terms. That simple. I have made the choice to stay here on the HAMB and contribute what I can by Ryans rules for others benefit. It's all stuff I grew up doing and seems to be what some still want to do. I like that part. I'll share anything I know with anybody that it can help. Taking it with me to the Dirt is silly. Building a so called "race car" to fit their requirements 2 times a year? Not at all interested.
If they let it run then run the Hemi . If you want a pre 54 build regardless of if TRog lets it in then run the Hemi any way . It will be IMO a more interesting car and have the Its s got a Hemi appeal . Besides what else are you going to do with it if you dont run it LOL . IF I was building a car to run on sand or dirt Id want the lightest engine in the front of the car for better weight distribution and traction. Not sure what the olds weighs ut the Hemi Is heavy .
The Olds is just as heavy if not moreso. The baby Hemis are like 580 lbs, whereas the 331s come in around 610-630. The 303 Olds is going to be in the mid-600s, because of the cast iron front cover and the extended deep skirt bell housing on the back of the block.
My '33 Plymouth had a 330" Desoto Hemi in it. Absolutely loved that car. it was just a little bit week knee'd. Thank you
Thank you for this response. I didn't know about that part. There's a new venue coming in the Midwest in 2026 that will be super cool event to attend. final preparations are in the works.
As a guy who likes Chevys and Cadillacs because I had a Cad powered 33 Ford in my youth............I still have to admit there there is no engine that looks better in an old pre-35 Ford than a Hemi. I don't think any real hot rodder can look at a Hemi powered body from that era and not take the time to look it over and admire it. A little more effort is required to install one, but no one ever doesn't secretly get a little drool when he spies one.
I agree ^^^ Never ever heard anyone ever walk up to a car and see a hemi and go "oh it's only an old hemi"..... ...
I did it once. I saw an old ratty coupster with an early Chrysler in it at a local restaurant one morning. The owner was just on his way out, paying his breakfast bill, so I asked him, "What year is the hemi in that?" He looks me in the eye and says "That's a '66 426 Dodge hemi." Mildly intrigued, I strolled over and took a closer look, saw it was a "long bell" (with a stock two-barrel, no less) and said "......". He almost got away with it; I'll bet I was the only one there who knew the difference.
L.o.L. My standard answer for any related questions such as that is, "what part of it are you asking about"?
No, but I've heard a few that looked at my aluminum headed flathead and say, "It's got a HEMI in it!"
We had a guy several years ago that had a T-bucket that he built in the late 60's. Really a nice rod too, he had a 426 hemi in it. He stated when he built the T finding a 426 hemi wasn't that hard or expensive so he bought one just because of its shear size compared to the T body. He told me about 2 yrs ago he'd considered pulling the hemi out and going to a 302 ford many many times thru the yrs due to gas mileage, the fact of the horsepower and torque in the light body was worthless and would instantly light the tires up. I asked him what stopped him from replacing it all these years, he replied, "that motor has won more trophies than the car has and the biggest reason? Kids and old guys just flock around it, the kids just stare at that big motor and grin and the old men always have a story. I know with a small block it'd be just another t-bucket". Couldn't argue with that !! ..
Or, you could do what I was going to do with my "Hot Rod" Tub". I have both an Olds Rocket AND an early hemi. I'm going to run a T85/R11, so I got the proper adapter between that and both engines, and a set of Hurst Motor mounts for each. With a little planning and foresight (which I already have been exercising), I figure I may have a "Quick Change Engine" to confuse the fans. With some custom built "lakes headers" and the proper under car exhaust, it may be a quick swap (with the proper electrical disconnects). Alas, old age and infirmity are already getting the way, so I'll probably never finish it. It's probably a good thing too, as I have a built 8BA and the adapter and Hurst mounts for an SBC in my stash.
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