Technical 3D printed exhaust manifold?

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1GiGPrj7k7/?mibextid=wwXIfr

 

Can a smart person enlighten us on this?

 

I think it's out of your price range?

 

Probably
But technology has a trend to become more affordable

I’m curious about the process.
And $$$$$

 

My only comment would be cubic dollars, not for the average hot rodder. 3D printing with plastic is one thing, but exotic metals take it to another level.

 

From what I remember one of the processes involves a sinter powder and a laser

 

The only way that could be remotely possible for me to pull off would be to print it in plastic and make a sand mold and cast the parts out then machine them afterwards. But I’m still lacking $$, education, and a lot of equipment

 

The school will need a lot of bake sales to get you that!

 

Just print the dollars, then the rest will take care of its self.

 

Wait 15 years

 

Some of us may not have 15 years!

 

Selective Laser Sintering of metal powder.

The laser fuses the powder in layers.

It's not new technology. It has been around for quite a while.

It has gone from astronomically expensive, to merely brutally expensive.

 

I do remember inconel is harder than stainless (more $$ than stainless) Welds VERY pretty.. Used in boiler tubes... Uncle Sam is one of the few that uses a lot of it in construction.
Pretty stuff fer sure !
6sally6

 

The machine that did this, with no supplies, no support contract, and no service contract is just under $500,000.

Anything made on it will be priced to pay off the machine.

Iconel 718 powder is $195/kg., or $429/lb.

 

It's actually "Direct Metal Laser Sintering"

 

You know, that's not a horrible idea. If you live in a fairly metropolitan area, you probably have quite a few people around that could print them for you. Maybe a third to half of them have a scan tool to create the file (most likley even be able to find a file for common parts online).

There's tons of HowTos online on casting your own aluminum, bronze, etc. But I dunno about casting iron in your garage.

-rick

 

Is there any mention of the project being done in a university setting? I can see it happening at one, as a senior design project.

 

Not as much as you'd think.

Look up "lost PLA metal casting".

The basic rundown is you imbed a PLA (polylactic acid plastic) print in plaster. When the plaster hardens, you melt out the PLA, and that becomes your mold.

There are free CAD programs that are pretty good, such as the aptly-named FreeCAD.

Even 3D scanning has gotten much less expensive.

Casting can be done by finding a hobbyist in your area who has the equipment, and bribing them.

 

True that.

I have a 3D printer that can print any plastic, including engineering-grade materials, with glass and carbon reinforcement. It's can do up to a 256mm cube. For larger, I sent the designs to a local operation with a larger printer.

If one wants to do lost PLA metal casting, the prints used for the mold can be made as big as the printer can handle, and then glue together into a larger assembly. It will have no negative impact, since the PLA gets melted out anyways.

I have a structured light 3D scanner, and a multi-line laser scanner, and Solidworks Premium.

I can't cast anything where I am, since it would need to be inside, in a medium-density city, but I know people with backyard setups that are willing to help me.

 

I have some experience with "lost PLA". The foundry we use does not like it as it has a tendency to be difficult to "burn out" and the ceramic molds then crack during the pour.

Doing anything hollow in an investment cast environment is challenging as a core is often needed. Sand cores just do not work due to the pressures and metal flow patterns. Ceramic cores are often extremely difficult to remove. One option may be to make an access hole in the wax to allow ceramic slurry in and to clean out afterwards and welding the hole, this is what the foundry and I did on a recent run of 1935-39 sedan delivery taillight brackets.

I USE FreeCad and recommend it. Very powerful but it does have sketchy documentation and a steep learning curve (but getting better every day).

Sand casting works great for iron, aluminum, and bronze/brass. And making a 3D pattern and core boxes (for "green sand" or "CO2 sand") should not be difficult. Not so good for steel or stainless as the sand molds tend to spall with the high heat of the pour and leave a very rough finish. One workaround recommended to us by a steel foundry (but we did not do at the time as pre-cad/3d printer costs were prohibitive) was to use a "shell core". This might be more affordable now using a 3d printed mold, to make a wax, to make the shell core mold.

 

Interesting. I know a guy working on printing intake manifolds out of plastics.

 

I would content that all CAD programs have a steep learning curve.

I have Solidworks, but also use Siemens NX, Fusion, AutoCad when they are in front of me.

They are all difficult to learn, initially, but are decidedly far from free, like FreeCad.

And yes, lost PLA casting has limitations, but for simple designs made in a backyard, it can produce decent results.

If/when it comes up again, I am going to attempt it using only the filament that is intended to be support material. It is impossibly fragile, and may burn out more easily.

Alternately, some support materials are chemically dissolvable. I had some support material that dissolved with D-Limonene.

Probably not an ideal solution, but worth a try.

 

Many of the under hood parts on my Falcon are made of 3D printed Nylon + Carbon fiber (or glass fiber), with some ABS-GF. That's where I proof workflows, designs, and performance over time.

This is already a standard industry practice, except for the 3D printing part.

If you look at a modern OEM parts, you may find that it has this marking:


The PA stands for Polymide, commonly known as Nylon.

The 66 denote two 6-atom monomers. It can be written as nylon 6-6, nylon 6/6, nylon 6,6, or nylon 6:6.

GF stands for glass fiber, with the 30 being the percentage of glass fiber content.

You can buy and print it*. It is stable to 220ºC, which is 428ºF.

*It does require and enclosed heated printer, that can reach to, or over 260ºC (500ºF).

I have a printer that can extrude at 320°C (608°F), max. They are out there, you just need to find the right one to buy.

Nylon 6-GF or CF, Nylon 12-GF or CF, and Nylon X (brand name from Matterhackers, it is PA12-CF) all perform well under a hood.



This, once it passes the tests, will be sanded and painted to match the air filter housing.

That one is ABS-GF. You can faintly see my shoe print on it. I put all of my 175lbs on it, and nothing happened, except a little flex.

 

When the vehicle the manifolds were printed for project costing in the strong seven figure range, the price of the manifolds is not really a concern.
Warning! This video is not HAMB friendly! View at your own risk.

 

as in, I bought a house instead of inconel printed manifolds?

 

Yes, fascinating process with these materials.
I like the old original design rams horns better. I know that's not the point here.
Don't forget, the time and research to design an efficient, great-looking final product comes at a cost as well. Because if you don't get that correct, nothing else matters. One example I can think of is the cast sbc exhaust manifolds with fins. Im not knocking the attempt, I just never cared for them.

 

Yup.

Right now it is fully possible, but largely only accessible to those who are not concerned by prices.

Like everything else, it will drop in price over time. In this case, cheap home-grade stuff might not become a thing.

Precise lasers that are powerful enough to melt exotic metals are not easy to make, nor are they conservative on power usage.

We may get there. Time will tell.

If they can get the price point to $15,000, I will buy one.

 

There is a place near me that casts all of Toyota's exhaust manifolds and some for other manufacturers as well. A friend is a technical casting guy that consults for them when needed. He tells me manifolds are among the hardest things to cast. They are cast with all the bolt holes and emissions holes in them. They use mostly used brake rotors to cast them.

 

@gimpyshotrods now if 1000 HAMBERs pitched in $500 each...

 

DMLS can be cost effective for prototyping parts before a full casting run or production run. DMLS in inconel for a one-off set of manifolds that you grind and polish is not cost effective.