Okay Denny thinking of ya'll often...in a good way... I missed the fact you found Fil's T...redundent but hey...all good. @Saulman, you're taking that T to a very cool place...nice to see the older stuff getting the love...
@DDDenny , thats a great story from @hotrodfil , some how I missed it. I love it when the guys oversea's deal with what they got, and make sumthin out of it. Great skills by fil too
Question does anyone know of a kit to swap the wheels to model a steel wheels? I got a set of model a steel wheels and wanted to know if I could do that?
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/model-t-and-a-wires.559239/ https://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/237973.html?1317081943 https://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/195739.html?1299549165 They are not cheap https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/product.htm?pid=981075&cat=41927
Dave (dwollam) has also offered some insight in this thread that covers the fronts... If we are going to lower this car anyway (and we are going to lower this car) I almost wonder if swapping Model A axles under it would give you the wheels you want without adapters & set you up for wheel brakes while also lowering the car in the front (the Model A has a drop compared to the T). The Model A front axle seems like it would be relatively straightforward to put under the T. But the T torque tube won't bolt to the A rear axle. I have two open drive banjos but they are probably way too wide to put under your T (I think they are both '40 rears). We could take that Model A rear and put an open drive kit on and just split the rear bones... that's easy enough, but I don't think a bolt on open drive conversion for the T transmission exists. Ain't hot rods fun? The easiest, cheapest, smartest thing to do if you want the look, unless there is a way to make that A banjo talk to the T driveline, is probably to find a set of T wire wheels. They are a little bit pricy but you are going to be spending money no matter which way you go (remember all of your A wheels need to be trued up 'cuz the spokes are bent). I think after you total up all the adapters and misc. bullshit for any of the possible conversion routes, T wire wheels look the cheapest. I did not realize there was so little compatibility between the T and the A... it really was a whole new car.
You’re right that’s gonna take a lot of work honestly if I could swap the front end and get adapters for the back that would give me front breaks and a drop? Like a motorcycle lol
Adapters are $900/4, so figure half that for two, if they'll split up a set of 4 to sell you 2, which they probably won't (Snyder's does not have a listing for a single adapter), and the A wheels we have still need work you will have to pay someone for. T wire wheels are like $100-200. Also there are cool period aftermarket wheels for Ts that you can't find the likes of for As (Buffalo, Hayes, etc). I bet we can find you a set one way or another if we look for a little while... let's spend your money on getting this thing running first. The wood spoke wheels you have are tight and the tires are holding air, so that's all we need for this stage. There is also the question of how well those spacers support the wheels, which some guys brought up on the mtfca forum. The spacers that are available are not really shaped like a Model A drum which would presumably leave the wheel center unsupported. They really aren't designed for that and will deform or crack. Also, I was thinking the A axle was a bit wider than the T but they are the same at 48". I think dropping that T axle the old school way, which I think we can manage ourselves, is by far the coolest way to lower your car but that's up to you. Dropped T axles look kickass.
Actually it kinda looks like even if you had T wire wheels you still can't just bolt them on. They do not attach like the wood wheels. What a pain!!! Let's get this thing running and see if it's even worth the trouble...
Saul - Trevorsworth and other previous responders are giving you good advice - get what you have running - learn the T’s strengths and weaknesses. Though manufactured from 4th quarter 1908 thru 1927, the Model T is still mainly 1908 technology. Wire wheels were an option staring in 1926; Ford also lowered the front end through revised spindles in ‘26, so ‘26/‘27 axle, hubs, spindles and wires may give you what you want - though still not designed for front wheel brakes. I have a ‘26 T RPU and a ‘31 A Sport Coupe - they don’t have a lot in common…and that’s the fun part. ☘️
Wow, I’ll be following. As far as a mag goes do it if you can. My Dad talked often of firing his T without turning it over he said it just absolutely amazed people. I’m signed up and welcome to HAMB Dan
Google search, Multy Aldrich model T. Thats the car you want to build. All model T. Multy used it as a daily driver, and drove it to the salt flats to race from La. many photos and stories, look it up. Don Snyder owns the car now. Any wire wheel option is going to be expensive. 1st, T wires are the weakest of the ford wire wheel family. about 1 in 5 is actually true. The hollow outer rim is often rusted thru and not worth fixing. As with any wire, you need the hubs too which doubles the cost. A wheels, 29-29 still hollow rusty rims, still weak. 30-31 rims stronger, easier to find, 19"...not really the look. And, you ain't gonna use an A axle to get front brakes without fabricating the whole set up from pedal to 4? wheels, keep in mind the T brake is in the transmission. Drums are parking only, and do very little. The correct wheels will require remortgage the house. Buffalo and Daytons the most common, still not cheap, and still need the proper hub. Daytons are normally pin drive, but I have seen the 6 pins do line up with the 6 bolts on a wood wheel T hub, and then use a normal stud and nut set up. Not done it myself. The next problem is, even if you find a bunch of real wire wheels, Daytons etc, even if they seem good and tight spokes ready to run...they are not. They are 100 years old, rust gets between the nipple and the rim, so once you start driving them the spoke will loosen up. Fact is, they all need to be rebuilt. I had a dream to build a copy of the Noel bullock Pikes Peak racer, it took 5 years to find 6 decent Dayton 48 spoke wheels, and about 10 years to find all 4 hubs, rears are hard to find! Then, most of the knock off caps have threads so loose I'm afraid to run them. I am a hack machinist and planned to make new as they are just not out there. Member @Kevin Pharis makes all this stuff new, beautiful work.
No, they are valve covers.... they are reproductions but the head is the real deal....just an F head which means that the stock exhaust remains in the block and the intake valves are moved to the head. There were many different ideations and configurations for the performance enhancing additions to the T engine.... I didn't mean to distract you from the core mission of getting your T to run....just wanted to let you know that there are performance enhancing accessories available.... but back to coils.... This is excellent advice and just because one buzzes doesn't mean it is ready to operate in the car. https://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/351270.html?1364507902 The capacitor is most certainly bad and having a good capacitor is necessary for proper operation for the ignition coil as @Kevin Pharis stated, the capacitor is certainly bad. It is key in making the ignition coil operate properly The void where the capacitor used to be..... proper point set up is also necessary....a stock Model T is a tinkers delight....and they are fun
One more option for wheels on a wood spoke T is early Chevy disc wheels. They are 6 bolt and the same pattern as the T wood wheel hubs! Dave
Good point Dave, I forgot about those. I had saved up a bunch over many years, but never got to it, and they sold at my auction 2 years ago. My plan was to cut the center out and weld it into a 21" drop center rim. Never happened.
Up until somewhat recently I drove a 25 T roadster a few days a week and planned on converting to A wire wheels. I didn't see anyone bring this up but A wheels can be used on a T spindle the A drum/hub/bearings will be used, your washers locating tab will also need to be filed some to fit in the SLIGHTLY smaller key way. The T spindle is also quite long so it needs to be shortened and drilled for a cotter key hole. Other wise you are stacking nuts/spacers and it'll look like a farmers haywagon. The rear is tricky the T wood wheel rear hub is relatively weak so it dosent lend itself to being modified for wire wheels because of the larger 5x5.5" A spacing <t wires are 5x5" not leaving much room for redrilling patterns. Langs does sell A wire wheel conversion hubs and at one time would sell them separately from the fronts this would allow you to keep the T rear end. My plan was always to marry the T torque tube and drive shaft to A rear end reusing the T spring. This marriage would gain you a much stronger rear axle/radius rods and most importantly brakes. "A" rear gear ratio would also be improved for spirited driving with T engine. The splice would need to be made at the front or the rear but it seemed to me a rear splice would be easier. The pinion flange of the A and T share the same bolt pattern. Unlike a V8 banjo the A used a drive shaft splined on the trans end and a tapered end that the pinion gear attaches to, the T also used the same type drive shaft but uses a square slip fit at the trans end. The marriage of drive shafts would be best made with a union welded connecting the two halves <this is often done when shortening V8 banjo torque tubes.> When I was figuring this all out for my T the upgrade to "A" brakes was a huge selling point. Driving in down town traffic was always a hair raising event for me relying on the T trans band brake with more than one close call. The A rear brakes could still be actuated by rod much like T accessory "rocky mountain brakes" would. This would require use of a equalizer bar and tab welded to stock brake pedal like the rocky mountain brakes. To take it a step further 32-34 brakes seem to be a improvement to model A mechanical brakes and could be used but the A brakes properly adjusted would have no trouble locking up the rear wheels. As for front brakes I don't think the incredible effort would be worth the added stopping power With all this being said I never made this conversion before selling the T . I did lots of reading on speedster builders groups and I did have the majority of the parts in my hands it seemed like the conversion would have been relatively straight forward with minimal machine work and a basic understanding of fabrication and welding. But none of this stuff is ever easy you really have to want it. *ramble over*
I reccomend a coil rebuild and adjustment by Luke who owns midnight coil repair, he is a professor at McPherson College. Quick turn around and a lifetime warranty on coil adjustment. It was a night and day difference after having mine rebuilt. https://www.midnightcoilrepair.com/home
I attended the "hotrod"model T winter seminar at McPherson College years ago, do they still do it every winter?
OK….. The Model T and ( Improved Cars 1926-27) were not designed for front brakes. Technically the late cars were not called Model Ts by Ford. They are reffed as the Improved Cars or Improved Models in ‘26 and 1927. The later cars are included in the Model T Shop manual but in period, they were not called Model Ts by Ford. Back to Front Brakes….. There has been some study on this. The conclusion is front brakes may be detrimental to a stock Model T. The Model T has a great deal of Flex. A stock Model T has more suspension flex and wheel travel than a stock Rubicon or most purpose built rock crawlers. They build ramps at Model T shows to demonstrate the incredible amount of frame and suspension flex these cars have. The Front axle, wishbone, steering gear, spring, spring perches, hub, wheels and chassis were never designed to withstand front wheel braking. Simply adding front brakes on a stock car can make the car inconsistent in braking and potentially uncontrollable!!!! Basically it flexes where it’s not supposed to flex and something breaks that otherwise would not have, the car winds up suddenly in the oncoming lane or upside down in a ditch. If you want 4 Wheel brakes, the safest solution is a Model A chassis. This is basically putting a T body on a Model A.
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