Hot Rods Spalding/Grant Flamethrower Technical Thread

I’ll start this thread by fully admitting that I am a hack and I don’t know that anyone will really care about this topic. But, here goes. I am in the process of tuning my engine that runs an original Spalding Flamethrower. I am not updating it to electronic, I want to use it as is. What I have found is that there is a bunch of information about using these distributors, including original instructions, but there is zero information about how to tune them and the proper part numbers for points, condensors, or anything else that may still apply to these. I am starting this thread to address these topics, because while I am learning a great deal through experimentation, it would be nice to see if others have knowledge to share in regards to tuning these. Is there interest in this? Do I bother to go any further with this topic? PS - loading pics tonight is not happening, so I’m just gauging interest.

 

I'm interested in learning some tuning tips. I have the maintenance booklet (Disassembly-Calibration-Assembly) and couple tuning tips from @quicksilverart46 that he posted here Grant Spaulding Distributor

 

Cool! Yes, that post was super helpful (not to mention that his sedan delivery is THE reason I got into more traditional hot rods and gassers, my truck takes so much inspiration from his. That issue of Hot Rod changed my car life). I would like to get a little more specific on timing curves and how to accomplish them here. I will post a lot more tomorrow, but it’s late on the east coast, my family is away for the week, and I’m drunk in the garage staring at my junk…hot rod that is.

 

im in for the ride,cheers

 

Sounds good! I’ll start here:
I won’t bore you with how to disassemble and reassemble, because that information is all over the HAMB. What I couldn’t find were actual usable part numbers to put good stuff back in after I cleaned and painted everything. Everyone said what the points were out of early ford v8s and sixes, but I’m not a ford guy (or a points guy for that matter) so it was guess and check for me. Only ended up with one wrong set, but I did end up with one set being the cheaper t series. Figured I’ll just run it until it needs swapping, The part numbers are as follows:
Standard Blue Streak - FD-8081 (the cheaper t series has a t at the end of the number)
Standard Blue Streak - FD-8285XV

 

For the condensors, as you’ve probably already found from Bubba (RIP), the Vertex Magneto condensors (part 3210) work great. I got mine from Alkydigger.

if you’re running a tunnel ram or high manifold, make sure you have the condenser installed straight up and down or it will hit the manifold and limit your ability to twist the distributor to adjust timing. I had mine on an angle and that was no bueno.

 

As for the coils, I have read that using too high an output will be bad for the distributor. Bubba always suggested using the Bosch blue coils. Well, if you’ve looked lately, Bosch blues are hard to come by and when you find them they are spendy. There is a replacement though that is more affordable. NGK (who I’ve always trusted) makes a direct replacement for the Bosch with internal resistors. In my limited time running this package, these have worked well.
NGK U1163

 

For background, I am running a 388 ci sbc. It’s a fairly hot motor with 10.9:1 compression, 215cc heads, a solid roller cam, and a tunnel ram with 660 cfm center squirters. I was worried that the Flamethrower would not be able to support this package, but so far so good.
And excuse the messy state of my engine and wiring, this is a build in progress.

 

I’ll make some more posts this evening outlining my progress getting the distributor running and the rough tuning I’ve done so far.

 

Thanks for putting this thread together.

 

My pleasure! Hopefully this helps someone in the future.

 

Yes, its value is immeasurable, especially to someone who has one of these strange creatures (like me).

 

I can't recollect the details, but I remember back in my first time around of HAMB-approved originals, I was always changing some part or tune under the hood. This caused me to use a timing light and dwell angle meter fairly often. It seems those were all I needed for up to 7000 rpm.

 

First post for tonight. I’m trying to get my brakes done tonight, so I’ll do this in small pieces as I take breaks (from my brakes….haha?).
So when I replaced the points I just put them back together exactly how I had found them. I don’t have a distributor machine, nor do I know anyone who does, so it was with a hope and prayer that no one had screwed up the 45* angle between the points. (Spoiler alert, it was fine). I have no pics of that but it’s self explanatory.

 

Once I had it all put back together, I stabbed it in the engine, just like any other distributor. I made sure I was at top dead center and set it down. At this point, the engine was still not ready to run so I did not go any further with setting it up. However, I had to run the spark plug wires, which presented its own problems.
I am using Moroso Ultra 40 wires. They are 8.65mm. The size was no issue, I think this distributor could probably handle most any size. The problem is, all of the wire ends were 90*, which will NOT work with the side plates. So, ordered up some Taylor 180* boots.

The boots worked great, but you’ll notice the crimp ends are still in the package. These ends are not long enough to engage inside the distributor. So, back to the Moroso stash I went and took the 90* crimp ends, bent them straight, and that gave me enough exposed end to engage inside the distributor. As you can see in the pics you need at least an inch stick out.

I actually had a thread on this because I was so lost on why the original ends would not engage. Special thanks to @Moriarity who helped me solve the problem.

 

I have collected a hand full of these over the years, doing one now for a 270 baby Hemi, sure is a sexy way to go. Still you can't beat a Vertex Mag for simplicity & power!

 

A little more for you…
When initially trying to start the engine, I was struggling to get it to fire despite following the instructions from Spalding to the letter.
Instructions state that when the engine is on TDC, the dot on the rotor cam should line up with the primary set of points on the odd side (driver) of the motor. There was even an illustration, my favorite form of reading! I looked at the illustration, set mine up identically and thought I was ready to rock. Two days later…it was apparent that no rocking was taking place.
Back to the internet to read the same information I’ve seen on these distributors for the ten thousandth time.
I had myself convinced the distributor was reverse rotation. Started studying how to get it back to standard. Whilst being studious, I came across a set of instructions that appeared to be the same as the rest, except, as I looked closer at the picture, it showed the dot on the rotor cam on the opposite side, on the opposite set of points. Tried that, fired right off.
Don’t know why one set of instructions was different, but it worked. Maybe it changed when Grant took over.

 

Where I originally set my dot…


Where it needed to be set…

 

Good information @pila38.

If anyone is thinking about adding vacuum advance to their distributor, early Chevrolet units are reportedly compatible. Early Cadillac and Nash units appear to be similar, but based on available photos, the arm length and swing might not align properly or deliver the correct pull. Here are some pics and notes from the H.A.M.B. and the general web.

 

So I got it running, messed around with the initial timing to get it idling ok, but quickly found the timing curve from the factory on these are terrible for my application.
If you read the instructions floating around on the interwebs you’ll find that a stock Flamethrower has a 15* advance plate that provides for 30* of crankshaft advance that isn’t all in until 3500 rpm. That is entirely too much advance for an engine that wants about 22* initial and 35* total and way too slow for an engine that needs all the timing by 2500 rpm. I found myself with initial timing at about 11* and total timing at about 41*. My engine hated it.
This is why I primarily started this thread. No one talks about changing the timing curve on these, at least not that I could find. The Spalding instructions do cover it, but all they mention is changing to a 10* advance plate and possibly changing the secondary spring.
Guess what…none of these parts exist…shit. And not only that, I have to pull half the top end apart to get the distributor out to mess with it…shit

 

So I tore the top end apart again and yanked the dizzy. Got myself access to the advance mechanism and had a good think.

I had a standard advance kit I thought may be helpful. It was not.
The bushings do not fit in the advance slots (although they do fit on the pins) and even the lightest spring in the kit is heavier than the springs already in the Flamethrower.
So, I went back to the thinking board. What I came up with was this…
A 1/4” flat washer fit on the advance plate perfectly. It also cut the advance slot in half, exactly what I wanted to do. So I did what any good idiot would do….and welded washers onto a rare distributor part that is probably impossible to find.
Now, in all my wisdom, I forgot to take pics of the welded washers. However I will make an illustration later on that I will add to this thread.
Now onto the springs. As stated previously, they are already lighter than other advance springs. Do I need to change them then? I tried making some out of a harbor freight spring kit I have because they were really light, but thought better of it after awhile.
But what I found while playing around with it was this…
If you have this distributor, you know that one spring has a long hook on one end that allows some advance before the actual spring kicks in (see pic above). And, as also previously stated, the other spring is super light. As I spun the shaft around, I noticed that my washer limiters stopped the advance just as the long hook on the spring caught the pin. So effectively I eliminated 98% of that spring. The secondary spring being so light, it flung the other weight out quickly.
So my final decision was to leave the springs, let it ride, and see what happens.
So I put it all back together, put it back in the engine, fired it up, twisted the dizzy around and shot the timing. It worked perfectly. I got 35* total, which left me at 22*initial for a total advance of 13*. Best part…it was all in at 2500 rpm. Mint.
Now, in the future I may want it to have some more advance. Not a problem, just file the washer hole a bit into the advance slot. Good to go.

 

Thanks @Kreepea_1 that will be helpful as I may want to add vac advance to this in the future

 

And that is where I am at this point. One other thing to add. I have dwell meters and timing lights and they all work just fine. But last week I bought this Innova 5568 timing light. Why bother mentioning it? It’s a timing light and does include the “dial back” feature if you don’t have a degreed balancer, but it also does RPM (helpful if you have an old Sun tach, like me, that may or may not be accurate), tells you voltage, and also reads dwell. You can set if for 2-12 cylinders. It has been fantastic in tuning this distributor, I highly recommend it.


And since I mentioned it, my dwell is 62*. A couple degrees off, but I’m not worrying about it at this point. It is something I will mess with in the future though.

 

Great helpful info Pila38, thanks for posting with pics

 

Like I said, I forgot to take pics of the washers welded on. Instead, I made this crappy illustration for you. As you can see, if you line up the inside hole of the washer with the inside end of the advance slot, it limits the distance the pin can move. You could effectively place the washer wherever you want to control the curve, and you can file the hole in the washer later on to fine tune your curve. At least that is my thought at the moment since I haven’t tried that yet.

You can also see my attempt at recreating the long hook spring. You can also see why I chucked it. As per my prior post, with the washer limiting travel, by the time the hook catches the pin, the weight has hit about 98% of its advance and only gently tugs that spring.

This is the long hook spring I keep referencing. Also, thought I would include a pic of this spring kit as well in case you wanted to know. It’s from Harbor Freight, and if I even do get the inkling to change the springs, I will have to use these. The smaller ones are actually just lighter than the included Flamethrower springs and just the right length. You just have to mess with attachment on the ends.

 

Sorry, the last post gave me problems with the final pic. Here it is:

 

awesome work @pila38 . You have made this look so simple even I can follow along, cheers

 

Thanks @deadbeat. I’ll update as I do more, but that’s where I’ll probably be for awhile because I have to pull this pile apart for paint. Hope someone else can chime in as well, lord knows I’m no that great at this stuff.

 

You have taught me alot already. Im getting ready to pull mine down and have look inside to make sure its all there.
Cheers

 

I respectfully disagree ^
You have learned and shown us more on the Flamethrower than we’ve ever seen.