Technical Question for the Pros - Sanding for Paint Prep - High Spots

Because almost no one will pay what it costs to get a true show car finish.

 

If you see a friendly car (it waves at you), it’s because they didn’t use a long enough block. And with blocks, you need to learn long even strokes.

 

Haha! I’m sure there are plenty who pay lots and still don’t get a mirror like finish. I need to know how to get that type of finish though.

 

"Lots" is a very subjective scale and most have no idea whatsoever what a true show car paint jobs costs or the work involved. A true show quality paint job probably has 300-400 hrs in it before paint is even sprayed add a couple of days for that and probably close to $10K worth of materials these day then 50-100 hours to cut and buff it afterwards all at a shop rate of around $100/hr. How many people do you think are paying for that?

 

Shrinkage?

 

Mirror like is EZ
Just do proper metal work
Proper body work
Proper primer blocking and sanding
Proper paint application
Proper color sanding and buffing

 

Never judge a paint job on how it looks without seeing the bill first

 

Agree, but then why do I see guys then cover it all up with filler?

 

Filler is anything that levels the surface
Primer, lead, plastic fantastic
They all do the same thing.
from high end coach built rides to daily beaters.
I’ve done repairs that didn’t get any “bondo” but it did get blocked with a filler primer.
A skim coat isn’t an indication of bad body work.
Look down the side of many new cars. Especially a new ford truck. That ride would need a good bit of body work to become “show” worthy.
I’ve done work for a manufacturer. We painted several of their show and press vehicles. Brand new bodies with zero miles. They got body worked from head to taillight.
“Show” straight is up and beyond what the factory did.
Another factor is cost. The amount of labor to remove a skim coat of filler can triple the metal labor.

 

So, a bunch of shorts from Bad Chad shows up in my YT feed, and I see this. The mother of all flex tubes! Better be sitting down @daylatedollarshort! Haha!

 

A friend of mine when I lived in Toronto knew a bunch of body men through his father who owned a wrecking/recycling yard. He said they all drank on the job because of how monotonous it was. They would be bored out of their mind sanding endlessly for days and days on end. I can say after a few rounds of 2-3 hrs of sanding these collectors is enough for me. I could never do bodywork for a living, but really admire those that can fab up metal and then bring to it to paint. Painting is something I always felt I could never do.

 

Sanding was EZ. Sometimes couldn’t believe people paid to do something so simple.
Enjoyed it a lot as a professional.
I don’t drink though. That could be it

my personal rides usually stay as found.
Don’t get paid to sand my own

 

Yup, I am speechless.

 

Thank you...
WTH... epoxy/filler will not hold up to any kind of heat, Perhaps this is a static display, The Key to any kinda rewarding results, Sharp paper, An a cross hatch type of approach, If it's "using" Exhaust, It's gonna Have to metal finished with abrasives...

 

@Ziggster , I think it's natural that you're always going to break through the surrounding primer first before you get the spot of Bondo flat.
Cuz there's much less of it.
A sanding block helps, but it still happens. The primer goes away pretty quick. But you've still got a thick spot of Bondo to make flat. The good thing about sheet metal, is it's harder than what we put on it. So it gives us a fighting chance to get everything flat and to the level of the metal.
... as long as we use a block.

Have fun.
Good luck with everything.

 

Oh yeah...
Get the Bondo off your exhaust system. Or not. That's okay, it'll come off by itself.

 

I get that today costs are exorbitant . I recently watched Peter from Legendary Motor Car talk about a recent addition to his collection. IIRC, it was a numbers matching 67 Vet with a 427. He didn’t specify exactly how much he paid for it, (likely over $300K), but the point was that he essentially got the car for “free”, as with today’s prices, to restore a car like that, to the level at which it was at, would have cost $300K according to him.
Maybe, I’m stuck in time, but in the late 80s/ earjy 90s, I recall fairly rare muscle cars like a 440 6-pack Cuda convertible selling for CAN$50K. A guy I worked with had Shelby 500K?, all restored, and he was looking for similar money. These cars were mint, but restored. Yearly salary for me in 1990 right out of univ was CAN$32K. The following year was $38K. So, these very rare cars were within reach for the avg person. I won’t argue that time is money, and a truly great paint job takes 100 hrs of hour of prep, and materials alone are multiples of 1000s. It’s just that I’ve seen so many cars with the ripples/waves over the decades, they all can’t be because the owners didn’t want to spend the money. Skills are not equal among any trade/craftsman.

 

Like I said, I hope it sticks, but no big deal if it doesn’t. We’re taking thicknesses in the thousands of an inch, in places no one will really notice but me. Hopefully, I have this damn thing started in the next 2-3 weeks and we’ll know one way or the other. Haha! I’ll be posting it running on YT.

 

Found the pneumatic body file. Still works. Is this thing still used, and if so, can you get pre-cut paper for it? I have a bunch of rust repair to do on the rockers of my OT project.

 

That air file is only useful if you already know how to do it by hand. Very easy to go too far in a hurry. Same thing with a DA.

The key isn’t just using long paper on a block, it’s the long strokes that come with it. Not just letting the block cut into the 12 inch section, but gently covering the whole quarter panel evenly.

I might consider using the jitterbug (with some 36 grit) to cut the sticky crust off the top of the filler, but do it all by hand after that.

 

As has been said...most work is done slowly and methodically using whatever combination of blocks and filler needed to get the results you're hoping to achieve. Others have mentioned the stroke patterns. It takes way longer than you hope or expect...there are no shortcuts. But, when you get it right...you can turn a panel/filler that looks like this:

Into something that looks like this (this is the before/during and after on the same panel):

It's very rewarding...and worth the effort...but as said, also very time consuming. If you find yourself saying "that's good enough", don't kid yourself, it's not, and the shortcoming will definitely show in the final results. I'm currently at the stage of finding the perfectly straight panels on my '38 cabriolet build, and it's taking longer than I'd hoped...but it's just the process, and I too need to remind myself of that often.

Good luck...and, while some are ok with spending the tens (and in some cases hundreds) of thousands of dollars necessary to achieve these results, I'm not that guy/person. I also find it extremely rewarding when people ask who did your body and paint, to be able to respond "I did, in my home garage"...that's when the time and effort it took to achieve the result melts away, and turns to pride. Again, good luck and enjoy the process.

 

I buy mine on amazon, any grit you want, continuous and adhesive. Or get the non adhesive. I love my air board, not perfect for all applications...like it's owner.

 

Marine headers are water cooled generally , MUCH cooler

 

Very true, but it was just regular JB Weld. Heat issues aside, I was amazed it worked, and still worked when I sold the boat a couple years back,

 

Amazing result! Generally speaking, I’m pretty impatient, but at the same time seem to always want or expect “perfection” in whatever I do. I plan to do the metal forming from scratch for the body on my speedster. Met a local metal banger who was 70, but was willing to teach, so will see if I can take him up on his offer. I love watching guys like Karl from Make it Kustom, and Jordan from Bennett’s Custom do metal forming on their projects.

 

I used to watch car shows and You tube crap but I got over it. I would go to Barrett Jackson and see Foose cars and Monkey Butt Garage shit, utter garbage. They may "may" have looked good the day they were painted but a year or so later they are in need of "overhaulin". Point is, you can't rush perfection. If you want a nice-looking paint job, patience is required. Use the best products/equipment you can afford. Be mindful of your health. These products can "keal"

 

I’m not the biggest air file fan
If the metal is right, it doesn’t take much to sand

 

HA!

You're the best!

 

Automotive body work is the great divider! Its a far greater divider among "car people" then it is with the general public. To many car people, all vehicles are held up against a perceived standard that very seldom can be achieved, or that can seldom be maintained for a very long term. Its great for those 10% that have the ability to reach the goal, and for about 1/2 of those that can maintain the goal, but the other 90% are considered failures. I believe "car people" are sending out the wrong message. Consider me a rebel.

All of my projects have started out as a pile of junk. Most were abandon projects left open to the ravages of nature, after they were left for dead. I bring them back to life to be driven and enjoyed on the road, many have surpassed 40,000 miles and are still going.
Since I start with abandon junk, I replace rusted away metal with new structure, do all the mechanical engineering to make them function, perform basic metal replacement body work, basic filler work, and a cheap paint job to make them road worthy. I really don't care if it waves a little at people as I drive it past them. A few paint chips from bugs and stones or a few minor scratches or imperfections in the cheap paint doesn't bother me much, I know where the car or truck came from, and what it was when I started.

My background is dirt track racing. In that segment of automotive world, the car only has to look good from 40' away to attract the general public's opinion of a nice looking car. If it looks good from 20' away at the beginning of the racing season, it probably won a trophy for the best looking car in the class!
I know how to do body work (I actually took classes on it), but honestly, sanding filler and block sanding a ride sucks. I have a pretty low tolerance for sanding. Smooth is a requirement, if your going to do it, at least make it smooth. Making it straight from front to rear is an option, I don't spend much time on the option. It doesn't have to be very straight to look good from 20' away. I do try to include something for nearly everyone when I build a ride. That includes something for those that feel a need to criticize the stuff I build.

I suppose seeking perfection is a good goal for building a hot rod, its just too bad so many never get done because the builders don't believe you can have fun with a car with imperfections in it. I believe that for a first time body project, that 20' smooth finish is a great, realistic goal. Builds after that should improve, until you reach your tolerance level. It doesn't have to be perfect to be fun, often times less then perfect is more fun, it reduces the stress level.

 

I would tend to agree at least as far as I feel. My speedster build is supposed to be a low dollar DIY affair. I dolled up my flathead, but after that not even sure if things will get painted like axles, frame, etc. I want to have an aged vintage look and feel to it. Definitely won’t be worried about paint scratches.
My original question I guess was technical in nature, and I think it had been answered to my satisfaction with a a few twists and turns. Haha! The issue for me is that once I start in something, it isn’t long before I start pursuing perfection. This in itself is a good quality, or should be, but it’s a black hole as far as time is concerned for me, and time is out most precious commodity. Like the old Soviet saying goes, “perfection is the enemy of good enough”. lol!