Technical advice on melted springs

not as bad as you might think...I found the car as "yard art" that was going to be scrapped...it went through the fire then sat out in a field for many years after...to the o/o it was a dream hot rod he got all the chrome redone and it was all set up for a small block chev with a 10 bolt etc. The rear of the car got it the worst which I've cut off and made into yard art...one man's dream turned to ashes....

Well sir in my defence is my 7 yr. old daughter.... my wife takes the money and spends it on her...this might rankle you but I just sold the A roadster I've had since I started here...why? too popular hence too expensive...

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...for-scrap-can-it-rise-from-the-ashes.1328725/ well here it is @Moriarity perhaps it's not HAMB worthy so go ahead and kill the post if you like

Hmm those are quite the accusations...fishing test? how about the research I did (including on the hamb search menu) turned up conflicting information? So I turned to the members here who have always been gracious with their time and knowledge...post counts??? what the heck does that even mean? do I get a lollipop? C'mon @Pist-n-Broke this the first time I have built a hot rod not just collected and stored parts for other people who can afford to build one...instead being a bummer consider yourself lucky you had something better to start with bro!

 

That's really cool @Budget36 ! I searched and searched for exactly this type of info!

 

When the heat sets in today, and I go inside, I’ll scan through the manual I have and see what else will swap.
Do you know which Desoto it is/was?

 

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...for-scrap-can-it-rise-from-the-ashes.1328725/

As I said some info in searches was saying springs could be straightened and heat treated and others said they're scrap...the kind gentlemen of the HAMB have given me a lot more info in this thread than hours of internet...and I trust them! also perhaps someone else can benefit from the post

 

from what I have of the remains it is identical to the Plymouth model 30 U
I'm trying to make this:

 

thanks @Fortunateson ! the local guy Rick closed down the shop and now delivers parts and springs but the old narrow springs have to be custom made... thanks to @Budget36 I may turn up some interchange springs or as @Mimilan suggested have them heat treated and then there's the Hot Rod route as suggested by others which brings up welding which I'm not really set up for at the moment...seems I will have to become an electrician to get a welder going in my shop

 

Okay, now you may have me onboard. As mentioned, a few photos help with a Vision of end results. Having just turned 78 and with a full shop of personal dreams to keep at I don't have time to waste but will always try to coach when time allows. I'm not at all a Restoration guy so for me there is No rule book, just a job at hand. I wasn't trying to be Negative about your project just blunt and to my point so I make a good decision where I spend what little time I do here on the HAMB. Carry on and I'll be watching.

 

While I’m waiting to charge a battery…

29-31 Plymouth (no model designation) uses an 11B
‘30 Chrysler CJ 6
30-32 Dodge DD6

are what I see uses the 11B as well.

 

I'm getting approx. 52 1/4" from the centre of front spring eye bolt to centre of rear shackle upper (frame) mount x 1 3/4" wide

 

I won't make that mistake again...pics or it didn't happen right? @Pistnbroke
Adding somewhat to the degree of difficulty in finding replacements is that the front eye is reversed....

 

I'm not seeing any warping or deformation of the frame...it's made of different steel than the springs which were probably subjected to the tires burning ...the guy junking the car kept the 10 bolt... said it was seized... it may not necessarily mean the bearings themselves melted

 

No it’s not reversed, will get a pic on mine to show you it’s the same

Edit: Well, reversed yes, but made that way I guess is a better answer.

 

Here’s mine

 

You may have just solved this for me...for some reason I thought it was riveted...I have this old trailer sitting around with a set of 1 3/4 spring but the eyes are same front and rear...now to figure out if the length is similar and if the centre bolt comes out in the same spot as the old ones...thanks @Moriarity !

 

looks identical!...that's the '32 Dodge p/u spring?

 

Sorry, those were the fronts I showed, I’ll have to get out back when it cools off and see if I can spot the rear springs in a trailer

 

Well now I’ve confused myself, you as well I think.
Let me explain.
I picked up a front and rear end from a ‘32 Chrysler or Plymouth.

The springs were on both, but now I’m not sure what I used when I put them under the frame. I got the car stuff for the 5.5 wheel pattern to replace the wood spoked wheels.
But the front and rear springs under my frame now, or both “conventional “ and neither is as the pics I showed.
Clear as mud now?

Been a minute or two since I did this

 

don't get heat prostration over it! at least I know someone has something if i can't make the trailer springs work - thanks

 

Doesn't rankle me a bit, I was just replying with my opinion, based on your description of the shape the car was in. I believe we all pictured it much worse than it, is based on what you posted.

 

I just went out back and spotted one rear spring like you show, I’m positive the other is in there somewhere.
So you have options if nothing turns up or it’s too costly to have a set made.

A question for the curious me, is your front spring(s) the same on the eye?

 

No the front spring has both eyes conventional ....this is what I have kicking around on a trailer that's no longer roadworthy...if I flip the front mounts and get lucky on the centre bolt and length I have these Buick fronts (1 broken main) as well then between them I should have enough 1 3/4" leaves to make a spring pack

 

Even if the spring brackets on your frame are riveted, the rivets can be drilled out and be replaced with grade 8 bolts. If you flip the bracket, you may have to drill new holes.

I can tell you I would be going at this in a completely different direction.

A 32 Desoto 2 door coupe weighed 2889 lbs (according to the Standard Catalog of Chrysler 1924 - 1990) from the factory (a 30/31 2 door coupe is 2630 lbs)

Find a pair of parallel leaf springs made for a car near that weight range (length and width of the spring wouldn't matter) that is currently being produced as a spring kit, with mounting brackets and everything you need. At least that would be the direction I would go.
Then I would determine where I wanted the center bolt on those leaf springs to be located so the rear axle was centered in the rear fender opening.
Then, using the brackets included in the spring kit, I would install the brackets where they needed to be on the frame and remove the original brackets.

The point is, the frame you have is for a 4 door sedan. Its pretty likely that the current location of the spring mounts for the rear axle on the frame will not place the rear axle in the proper position to work with the rear fenders on a coupe body. The coupe body is very likely to be a few inches shorter then the 4 door sedan body. If you are going to have to modify the spring mounting brackets on the frame, you might as well just mount new, wider spring brackets in the proper location and be done with it. Save yourself the added expensive of buying special order outdated parts.

 

Thanks @gene-koning that's good old hot rodding advice right there

Yes indeed...I'm going to take advantage of that to move the cowl back...so where the rear tire ends up is going to determine where the wheel wells of the body will sit ...it has a hood so moving the body back will give a stretched look to the front fenders...I'll leave the headlight bar where it is and move the rad back...I think it will look cool

 

If the Desoto is anything like the 30s Plymouth I had, you are going to be limited on how much you will be able to move the body back on the frame because of the frame width. On the 30s cars, the widest part of the body is at the back edge of the front doors. The cowl/firewall bolts onto the frame at the point where the body and the frame width are the same. If you move the cowl/firewall towards the rear of the frame, the frame becomes wider then the firewall is. Moving the cowl/firewall back on the frame can become a major project, pretty fast.

 

there's actually a factory body mount tab right where I think it's going to end up! the fact that the cowl is now on the inside of the frame is undetectable because the fender "sash" and side guards arrangement stay in the stock position...

i'll explain and take pics as I go in this thread... https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...for-scrap-can-it-rise-from-the-ashes.1328725/

 

Until you posted a link to your other thread, we were just going off of your descriptions. What you showed in your thread and now the photos you showed doesn't show signs of significant heat damage. That said, weakening of a frame due to detempering due to high temperatures can occur without visible deformation. If you think a frame you're planning to use has been fire damaged, NDT can confirm if it has been softened. However, given the condition of everything in your case now seeing the photos, I wouldn't worry about it unless there is a lot of warping. Clean the thing up and if it looks good dimensionally, use it.

 

Late to this but I have had all of my custom spring work done by Pohl Spring in Spokane, WA. It's been a few years and some more since I last used them but the price was good and the springs are still in service on my OT car.

Looks like a really fun project you've got there!

 

F.Y.I. There is a lot of spring tec out there most Hot Rod guys don't know about. All this info is out there on the web. The different spring eyes you mentioned, One is a Berlin eye and the other is a reversed eye. You have one of each on the same spring.


This is not uncommon and has a lot to do with shackle angle and ride performance. Modifying one or the other constitutes changing the shackle length to keep the spring doing its designed job. You can't believe how many Hot Rods are out there that would ride a Ton better if only they knew what they did not attending to that one little issue.