I thought this would be an interesting discussion. My 28 Model A Roadster Pickup will be my first big adventure in sheet metal repair. I'm not new to building cars but mostly a novice with sheet metal. For something to do I took the dash rail off because I knew it had some through holes on the one end. I started stripping it back down. At some point someone stripped it and primed it, so the rust is cleaned off but it's pitted and has some real thin spots on the driver's side. The photos below show the general overall condition. It's pretty good except the driver's end of it. Repops would cost $4-500, and I saw used on eBay worse than mine (rusted bad on both ends) for $265 and up from there. So at what point for a smaller panel like this do you decide to repair vs replace, and what would be your go-to method for repairing this panel if so? It seems like a good panel to work at repairing, so I just thought I'd get some ideas first. I have zero tig skills, but I'm decent with a mig and have a good Miller.
Weld in plugs , Weld , Lead , braze , Or good filler , Or Build up primer Then finish . Only replace whats needed or think needed , There are not to-many non Oem thats correct shape / fitment
That's all fixable. You will quickly learn that the repair will be larger than you expect because of thin metal.
those are simple repairs. should not need any mud. that does not look like thin metal other than that one spot, the rest looks fine, thin metal is where you can stick a screwdriver through it. the pitting will disappear in the primer/blocking steps. I like patching small holes with circles of metal rather than squares. I have a little case with different sizes, just drill the hole bigger with a step drill and weld in the proper size plug. I'd fix the thin spot with a circle big enough to cover all the thin spot and redrill the hole a little hammer and dolly on that damage at the top should close up the rip good enough to weld it shut. I'd only replace that if I got a better one for free
Before you cave and get a repop, hammer out some repair pieces, fit them and weld them in. It will be good practice and if you have a small screw up make another repair piece and try it again. You won't get good without practice. I would tig weld those in, but you can mig them with the spot tack method. Use a fair amount of heat and make your tacks small and hot so you don't have a bunch of goober to grind off. I use a small air grinder 80 grit rolocs to get things close. For the first picture hammer the bead back into shape, use a piece of round bar with a another piece welded on to make a tee to hammer on. For the second cut the strip out of the top and weld in a new piece past the second dent. For the last picture of the left side, weld the extra hole closed, cut out around the top hole and rust spot but don't cut to the bead so you can weld and grind on the flat part. drill out the hole to the proper size then take a piece of round stock bigger than the hole. Drill a hole in the center the same size as where the screw goes thru, then counter sink it with a bigger bit that matches the screw head, then take one of the screws and put thru the hole in the panel and your round stock then hit the screw with a hammer to dimple the hole. use some filler and high build primer to smooth it up.
Mine was the same. Repaired OK. I like to keep as much original Henry steel as I can. I repurposed the extra hole!
Man those small projects are perfect for starting your metal working. Try making small Patches first shaping and trimming to size but make sure it’s large enough so your welding to solid steel. After you have the patch lay it on the panel you’re repairing and trace it with a black marker then cut it out and trim or grind it for a good fit. You can tack it in and then weld it in with your. MIG. A few hammers and dollies are a good idea you don’t need a great set to start.
You’d probably spend more time trying to get a new pattern panel to fit than repairing the original one.
Since you’re a novice at this let us go over tricks used to weld and repair thin metal with a mig. When you’re to a point you need to weld thin material that blows away quicker than sticking to the parent metal you have three options. 1. Cut out the specific area that is thin and form a matching piece and tack and weld to fit. 2. Find yourself a large piece of heavy brass or copper. Clamp those nonferrous pieces to the back side of the steel you’re trying to repair. Very slowly tack the holes shut by letting it cool between tacks. The brass will become a heat soak allowing you to bridge the weld over an open hole. 3. Not preferred… especially on an outside panel exposed to weather…. Take a piece of steel the same thickness as the parent metal and tack it to the inside of the repair area overlapping the edges. This repair will trap moisture especially when it’s exposed to the elements. Before trying this on your panel that needs repaired. Try it on an old rusted out piece of metal the same thickness.
I didn't realize last night when I posted that not all of my photos loaded. The pitting on the back side is actually pretty thin (worse than it looks in the photos). There are several areas that are very thin in the bottom of the pits. There's a pretty large affected area on that end, and it's a compound curve too.
To me it looked like the face of almost that whole end with the mounting holes would need to be replaced but it looks pretty flat in the pictures other than the curve of the dash top to bottom but I not familiar with the piece. If you run into shaping issues I have a garage full of metal working equipment and could try and give you a hand sometime.
fairly "minor" pitting I would use a metal prep chemical to derust, then lead the surface. too thin I would cut and weld in a patch, replacing the whole area.
Lots of good advice and I agree, very fixable. Patch the holes. Lightly sand blast. The heavyly/deep pitted areas could be repaired by skimming with short strand fiberglass reinforced filler. Sand/grind flat and apply coat of 2k polyester putty rather than body filler. Epoxy, filler primer will finish it out.
never weld anything from behind bigger than the hole. that shouldn't even be a suggestion. this is the HAMB, not the HACK. I suggest practice welding on some scrap pieces to get the feel for it and figure out what settings work best for you. get it sandblasted, that will tell you where your thin spots are because they will become holes. small holes don't need any filler piece. I always suggest going in you should try to do a weld only repair. it doesn't always work out that way, but going in with mud in your thinking you will never get better lead? fiberglass? no comment.
Many of the parts on my Model A looked like yours. I made patches for really thin areas, skim coated pitted areas, and block sanded until smooth and straight. I did POR 15 the back side of all my panels after they were clean with all loose scale removed.
POR 15 is not going to touch any metal I have, ever again. That hard earned lesson happened many years ago. POR 15 does nothing except to cover up the mess until it rots completely away.
Get a bunch of sheetmetal plugs in the appropriate gauge. Drill the holes / very thin areas out to clean, solid metal with a step drill bit to suit the plug. You can guess the rest! The stamped plugs might be waste / scrap from a manufacturing process. I think Bob Drake used to sell them in handy sets. You can cut them yourself with tinsnips though. Perfect or near perfect is the aim. Lovely to weld, especially with tig. Chris
Thanks, I appreciate the help! Maybe I undersold my starting point. I have experience welding up cracks and holes in rusty metal, and know it can be frustrating. I also have learned/been taught methods of repair that are... let's say, less than ideal. Like number 3 in your list above, then slather on filler. I also grew up in the 90's when I saw people I knew doing autobody rust repairs using rivets and fiberglass. So... I'm looking to forget everything I've learned and find a new way, which is why I posed the question and believe I am starting as a novice. As for your option 2, I do have some good tools to help. I have the copper backer kit below, And I also have these Eastwood magnetic copper backers in two lengths. I've had good success with them on other projects, but on my Model A I'm a bit more... timid. I also have a basic hammer and dolly set along with sanders, cut of wheels, die grinders with roloc discs, etc. So, piggybacking on what @Happydaze commented, if I can cover the thinned areas sufficiently with a flat plug, maybe I could drill it to size then work it to shape and weld it in? Two local guys on here have also offered some form of help too, that seems worth pursuing.
I guess filling the deep almost rusted through areas with long strand reinforced filler is exactly what I'm looking to avoid if at all possible. This truck doesn't need to be perfect, but I want the metal repairs to last my lifetime if that's a possibility.
When it's possible, I like to sandblast both sides of something rusty like that. Blasting is pretty hard on metal, if it blows through, it needs to be cut out and/or welded up. I figure if it holds up to a good blasting, it's solid enough to leave it be. My threshold for repair vs replace for sheetmetal is very high, but I like to do sheetmetal repairs, and the stuff I'm usually working on, generally there are no replacements available anyway. And at some point, it turns into the Ship of Theseus. I know there's more than a few "Henry steel" cars running around that may have started with an original car, but there's so much repop tin on it, virtually nothing original is left.
I found stuff like this fun to tackle with my TIG. It is the heater box for a late 1930’s Oldsmobile. Below after photo You need to back the holes with copper sheet or it will turn into monster holes, but if you keep heat down, it will burn out the smallest pinholes, but with the copper backing it can be filled like a small drilled hole. Just requires a lot of patience. Just an additional thought, I cut and shape my copper backing metand clamp it to the piece as best I can. My 79 year old eyes can’t do this anymore, but I was still ok a decade ago.
This often is the story I hear, it’s rare I hear of a replacement panel that is even remotely close to the right shape or size.. If I replaced it I would replace it with another factory ford one.
That's a non-structural panel so the pits have no effect on anything but looks. I'd use a step drill and make the hole larger and round, make a tight-fitting button and weld it up. The rusted away curve section would be another patch. I would do nothing to the pits except prime and block several times until I had a surface I could paint and move on.
I've successfully repaired similar, and I'm a rank amateur. Weld the holes, and fill the pits with USC All Metal.
I have some Brookville panels for the back of the RPU cab that will need some rework to fit. Pretty disappointing but it is what it is, no company is immune to those issues apparently.
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