Technical A Kid's First Project: 1957 Fairlane 500 Town Victoria.

I meant that comical but everything there is true.

 

i have zero words to describe how absolutely horrified i am of this post. you havent even mentioned all the different flex plates and torque converters for compatibility because ford definitely didnt keep the same size and style for all of them.

i dont want to even think of an automatic in a car of this era anymore. let alone touch one, they may as well not exist! the t85 and toploader will be the only transmissions i need. as last i checked... the t85 is pretty close to the same for most ford cars, even the mustang toploader works with the t85 3 speed bell housing iirc.

 

whelp. i managed to break a 9"! both wheels are permanently locked i think i broke a spider gear?

 

Were you giving it the 'ol Lloyd holeshot? What happened?

 

It’s @Lloyd's paint & glass fault he corrupted you. LOL
Dan

 

Not to discourage you but you might give Mummert a call they are Y. Block experts.
http://www.ford-y-block.com/index.html
I think you could build a budget? engine and make 250 to 300 hp and you would be able to use everything you have now. The 1400 - 1500 head job sounds pricey. In this area you can get heads redone for much less. Basic head job V8 200- 300, crack check 20-50, guides 150 -200.
390s are cool had one a long time ago, loved it. Pure torque monster. Installing a 390 might be a huge and expensive project.
Dan

 

i think the last burnout i did managed to weld/sieze the pivoting spider gear to the carrier. so uh... yeah time to get a limited slip lol.

also found the vibration, i knew it was in the rear, my tires are half an inch out of round.

they wouldnt do it without new valves, new seats, new guides, and such. it could have been a "dont wanna do it" price because its an obscure engine, i could call around a couple other shops.

the mummert stuff is VERY pricey. to reach stock FE power youd need a couple grand invested in a 312, an engine i dont even have. not even mentioning the stuff thats not even being made right now. the 292 as is is probably about as powerful as i can get it without pulling the engine to cam it.

 

Well the thing about doing one legged burnouts is the wheel that is spinning is going twice as fast as the speedo is showing so yeah it wrecks stuff quickly.

That’s far from a differential strength problem and more an abuse problem.

 

Will the wheels turn at all?
Confirm that’s it’s not the transmission ( drop the driveshaft).
It could be something goofy like brake stuff (lining separation, shoes slipped and jammed) but I doubt it.
The axles have to turn before the axles are removed.
The axles have to be removed before the the center section (Third Member) can be removed.
The axles have to turn at least once so you can unbolt the bearing retainer plate and pull out the axle shafts.
You may have to play with it some to get the axles to turn.

 

@F-ONE, that's a real good explanation on the varied Ford engines nd applications you posted earlier. Also, unnerving.

 

Man, it’s been a rough week.
Sometimes I like to fuss. I like Fords so it was a perfect storm, I fussed about Fords.
What I said was true but that’s mainly small block, Windsor, Modified and Automatic transmissions…..
Stuff like that.

FE stuff is fairly simple. Expensive but fairly straightforward.
All this stuff is expensive but what it really requires is gumption and labor, wise labor.
Labor can save you lots of money. A good example is learning how to check bore taper with piston rings and feeler gauges.
You can learn to do part of the machinists job at home, this way you are more informed.
How you get wise labor is by breaking stuff or getting into the shop manual and then braking stuff. Pretty soon you learn the correct way to break and not break stuff.

Truthfully an FE is a better engine than a Y block. Y blocks are good engines I like them but FEs are just a better design. They are a 2nd Generation OHV. All of the First Generation OHV V8s tend to have their quirks. SBC is and exception. Although technically 1st generation, GM learned a lot from the 331 Cadillac, Nailhead and mainly the Olds 303.

Get a good FE 390. Stock is really all you need. Get a Performer intake and a good 4bbl.
Trucks had FEs, so there should be plenty of FE manual bellhousings.
Likely you’ll have to get a flywheel because most car FEs will be auto.
I think the later FEs were external balance but then you get into the 360s. You really need to find a confirmed 390 preferably from the early-mid 60s.

Transmission, if yours not toast I use it.
I would be on the look out for a car ( long tail) 3.03 top loader 3 speed.
Sometimes trucks had long tail 3.03.
Ne caution with truck 3.03s, make sure it has a slide in yoke not the truck style that requires a hanger bearing.
If you find this from a junkyard or parts car, get the driveshaft yoke too.

It no biggie, just doing.

 

When we replaced my buddy, Larry's, 260 in his Galaxy wannabe Mayberry police car with a '67 Mustang 289 and C4, everyone including myself told him "It'll drop right in!"
Try to find motor mounts for that swap, impossible. To keep the Generator, I had to keep buying water pumps til I found one with the correct mounting holes. Nearly everything had to be modified. But surprisingly, one of the transmission cooling lines went on without even bending it.
Larry always had great Faith in me, he had seen me do a lot of seemingly impossible tasks. I did some tweaking here and there, and we got it done.
This is what Larry said when it was finally finished. "If someone tells you it will drop right in; it just means the hole is big enough!"
RIP, my very good friend Larry. Ron

 

If you welded a spider while doing your one legged burnout, just weld the other spider
& you'll have a "hillbilly spool"

Breaking something while doing a burnout will forever be known a "Pulling A Lloyd"

God Bless
Bill
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...ar-transport-hauling-open-or-enclosed.614419/

 

Cat that 57 Fairlane that was in the for sale section for a while and then finally sold I was hoping you pulled the trigger on buying it. It was a much better car all around and even the same colors.

 

Bill, that is so absolutely perfect. “Pulling a Lloyd”! I love it. Truly a phrase that will stand the test of time. @Lloyd's paint & glass

 

Clayton, in all seriousness, what you need is torque. I love the FE engines, but the last year they were manufactured was 1976 in trucks. They are also expensive, not quite as expensive as your Y, but still. I’m not going to mention what I would do, anyone who knows me, knows my answer. However, give some serious thought to a 351W. They were built up until 1996 which makes them much more plentiful, with a small cam, think Melling MTF-5, and an Edelbrock Performer intake, your Holley, and dual exhaust, they really run great. The 351W is smaller than a Y or FE which makes fitting things like exhaust easier. If you travel, finding parts locally will be considerably easier too. I do agree with your idea of a manual transmission over an automatic and you can use whatever transmission you want behind a 351W.

 

You can always put a “Mystery Motor” with a Muncie in there.
It can be blue and have question marks on the valve covers.

 

Cat, I had a 65 Belvedere, my first muscle car. 361 4 speed. Engine let go the second week I bought it and no I wasn't beating on it. With 20/20 hindsight, I was a fool to spend a dime on that engine. I should have found a 383 that would have 'dropped right in'. Everything was the same or more and I ended up with a rebuilt unloved undersize engine.
9 inches can be blown. My guess is you broke a spider tooth and it's lodged in the ring.
It stinks, but you can pull the axles with a wrench. Again, get a 3rd member that will bolt -in rather than rebuild, if possible.
Hopefully @F-ONE can enlighten us on that.

 

the axles are just locked together, in neutral they spin together, a spider is siezed, seems to be the center one. as the car drives fine minus the rear just being locked, turning gets unstable,

glad i didnt try to do a burnout at lloyds to poke at his car not doing one, thought process of "280 miles from home is no place to grenade a clutch, transmission, axle or flywheel" saved me.

theres two or three 66 thunderbirds in a junkyard near me. theyve been there for years, i know the one engine turns but i know its original.

what i dont know is what the vin is, i plan on stopping by tomorrow and checking the vin,

if its a Q its unobtainium and a 428. (which if it is one i wont even know what to do with myself... i never get that lucky so dont worry)

if its a z its a 390. a good solid all rounder, i would stick a cam and offenhauser intake on it with offenhauser valve covers... you know, the necessary stuff. what it looks like

either way those cars are a good bet for a high comp FE. i didnt know about the truck bellhousings, if they'll work with the t85 my car has i can probably score a flywheel, bell housing, etc all for less than a hundred bucks.

ive looked into the windsors... ive decided against, namely because im trying to build it like its the early 60s. to get your hands on any windsor would be unheard of, fes can at least be dressed up to look like an older 352 or 390. aswell as the fact i will need to cut out and weld in new motor mounts, as the stock mounts on a 57 are compatible on the frame side and the rubber is aswell (hell i think theyre the same part number just upside down).

the car will eventually get a column shift 4 speed. but the cheapest top loaders are over a thousand and need rebuilt, itll be a while until that happens.

i did not purchase it. at this point im so far deep into this car theres no point in going any other way, im gonna fix this car. unless someone smashes into me (which will probably kill me lol) im going to stick with this one.

 

I’m no rear axle man by any means. I just work on old stuff.
Cat you do not have a hillbilly posi.
You have a f”ed up rear axle.
If that joker locks up you are screwed.
If that joker locks up going down the road, that could be bad, I mean bad, bad.
If it locks up what’s going to happen? Here’s some possibilities.
Loss of control and the rear of the cat swinging around into traffic.
Drive shaft breaking at the transmission, driveshaft spearing into the pavement who knows what’s would happen.
Driveshaft coming through the floorboard.

You could kill yourself or someone else.
You have a moral responsibility to fix it because you know it’s a problem.

Right now you can turn axles. If it locks up the whole differential may be ruined.
Pull the axles, replace or rebuild the 3rd member.


That car should be parked until that is fixed.

If you replace the 3rd member pay attention. Some differentials are case fill, some fill at the third member.
With 8” or 9” you can wind up with the absurd problem of having no way to check or fill oil.

 

True. Heed the warning. On the 9" , there are spline count differences, bearing size differences, yoke differences for sure. Research and confirm before going out and grabbing one.

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/are-all-9-third-members-interchangeable.378394/

 

the car isnt getting driven until the axle is fixed, im going to have my center rebuilt with a stock replacement 1964 style traclock by a local performance shop. the rear end doesnt make any howls, chatters, etc when spinning, only noise when turning, one turn too many could mean the spider explodes and kills my ring gear.

gonna need to sink about 800 bucks into it, worth it

 

Is the cost with you taking the car in, having them remove and install it?
If the cost involves them removing it, pull it out yourself, then take it in to them.
The good thing about setting up a 9inch, it can be done on a bench with just the 3rd member, as it all comes out at once.

 

im taking the third member out and taking it in. id rather the car stay at my house

 

Look at Lloyd’s thread (his gasser build, last page or two) see the cost of a QP drop in and some things to look at/for.

 

I have a QP position in my Ford, think it was around $920 all in 8 years ago. 28 spline with a 1310 yoke. I should have gone with a short 1330... but i already had the drive shaft made up, etc.

You could get a junkyard ham to get you by for a while, as long as the spline count matches up.

 

The factory trac-lock carriers were junk in my any friends opinions. Between 3 of us we broke over a dozen carriers. Good thing our buddy owned a junk yard. Open and aftermarket carriers we never were able to break though.

 

Those junkyard Thunderbirds may have 9” rears.
Ford F100s up to ‘72 should have 9” rears, a very few half tons could have Dana 60s.
I do believe it was 1973 or so Ford went from 28 to 31 splines.
31 splines are a popular upgrade so it’s possible a junkyard unit my a have that upgrade. If you decide to get a “cheap and dirty junkyard unit, the best case would be to take your axles shaft and see if it fits.

I ordered a 8” third member, Eaton Tru Track from QP. “Quick Performance”.
It was 1100 bucks or so 3 years ago.

I just checked on a 9” from QP, 3.89 Tru Track…..
It’s a little over $1000.

 

Cat, you may be hard headed and think "I gotta fix the original one" but if the cost to fix yours is the same as a new in the box replacement, it means you have the broken one laying around to explore and possibly rebuild at a later date. Plus as you have seen here, a bunch of us old guys have a stash of old broken @#$% tucked away. This is the way if you want a lot of big, heavy, broken parts you have to store.