Hey Guys My wagon finally gave me a major issue. I seems to begin as a starter issue like a binding starter. Also thought it was the battery. welp changed the starter and would get it again still be there. It's sort like a starter engaged to a stop. So on this last one I rolled the car in gear forward to turn the engine/flywheel. It overcame whatever the stopped part was. As it turned on whole driving I am getting what feels like slipping. I do hear the shift go up and down. doing seems that something internally got knocked loose. I need to find a good reputable shop local to DTLA. I'm not asking for oil opinions or whether a cast iron or aluminum case. I'm asking to see if anyone has had this encounter and fixed such a bind like this. it sounds like I'll be dropping the money to have a full R&R also I know I will most likely be wording all the parts from Fastco.
With a Ford-O-Matic, rolling the car in gear won't move the flywheel. Without the engine running, there is no way to get it "in gear". There are two things that keep this from happening. First you have to get the gear train in a gear and you need to apply a clutch or band to do this which requires the engine to be running ( you need hydraulic pressure). Second, there is no mechanical connection inside the torque convertor. It requires engine rpm to work. I could see a problem in the gear train that might lock it up and I could see a problem in the torque convertor that might lock it up, but not both at the same time. I think you need more diagnosis before pulling the transmission.
That's not entirely true. The early Fordomatics (at least up through '57) didn't have their hydraulic pumps in the front of the trans, it was installed at the back. These could be push-started by putting the trans in neutral, push the car up to 30+ MPH, then dropping it into gear. The new-for-'58 Cruisomatics moved the pump to the front, this was no longer possible on those. At some point Ford redesigned the Fordomatic and moved its pump also, but I'm not sure when, but I suspect it was in '59 when Ford came out with the last version of the Fordomatic ('59-64) that featured a one-piece case (including the bellhousing) and was a true 2-speed, unlike the early versions that were actually three speeds. It was replaced by the C4. If you have 'binding' in the trans I don't know if trying to push-start would be a good idea, but it is a possibility. The early Fordomatic, Cruisomatic, and FMX are all related and feature very similar separate bellhousings, I've always wondered if a later FMX could be fitted to the earlier cars with some parts swapping.
Well guys. I didn't push start it. I just moved it forward enough to move or losen ever was bind and allow the starter to turn the flywheel. But that's when this issue came up. I've got what feels like a slipping, intermediate gear. I can hear the transmission downshift all the way down when I come to a stop I didn't want to force it, but I don't think it goes faster than about 10 mph. I found a PDF of the 58 Ford Fordomatic manual In the main thing it says is band adjustment if you have that type of slipping. I really think something broke loose though. I saw a Thunderbird forum that someone mentioned a bad lock up solenoid. thanks for all the notes guys
IIRC, these are somewhat known for case breakage internally. There's a bulkhead that can crack and break, but it's usually due to abuse.
Early Ford-O-Matics had two pumps, a front pump and a rear pump. The front pump is driven by the torque convertor hub and the rear pump is driven by the output shaft. In fact, almost all automatic transmissions had a front and rear pump prior to 1965 and could be push starter. In general, the rear pump ran the governor and is much smaller than the front pump, but it could supply enough pressure to apply a clutch or band for a push start. If the transmission only had a rear pump driven by the output shaft and there was no front pump, how do you build pressure with the vehicle standing still? You would have to get the vehicle rolling to get it into gear.
A Ford-O-Matic is a 2 speed, 3 speed transmission, although there was a only 2 speed version in the late 50's. Your transmission starts in second speed and shift to high during normal operation. If you move the selector to low range it will start in low gear and shift to second if you move the selector to the D position. It will then go on and shift to high if you keep accelerating. Now I'm assuming your selector is PRNDL not PRND2D1L which would make the transmission a Cruise-O-Matic. Not many of those behind a 292, but who knows what swaps may have been made in the last 50 years. What selector do you have? Do you only have one Drive postition?
I have the low and the regular D. So PRNDL Steve. If something like that broke, but internally. It would not be massive leaks right. I dont have and funny leaks. Fluid levels ok. do you guys know if the when you don't driving the front band either locks or a hydraulic solenoid lock something to get into park. But that lock would stop the start from allowing the engine to turn?
The case breakage on these transmissions only affects reverse and manual low gear. That doesn't seem to be your problem. When you start off in D, the forward clutch and the front band are applied. When you shift to high, the front band is released and the direct clutch is applied. If it is slipping when you take off, or during the 2-3 shift, it could be caused by the front band being out of adjustment. It could also be caused by the throttle linkage being out of adjustment or missing. Ford used a pretty complicated linkage on the Ford-O-Matic, but the adjustment is pretty simple. It is outlined in the Ford transmission manuals. Band adjustment is also simple, but it involves dropping the pan. If your fluid doesn't smell burned, I'd vote for linkage adjustment first.
A couple of points: your transmission has no solenoids. The broken case on these transmissions is internal so there is no leak.
Thanks Jaracer. I ordered the 1957 Fordomatic shop manual. I found the 58 PDF after the fact. I'll try tomorrow but I want to say I don't feel the forward clutch engaging as usual. I only feel what would be it wanting to move forward but just sort of slipping. I'll check the throttle adjustment first. Ordering some fluids. So the pan drop might be a couple days out. The it would be take a look at the band adjustment. And see if there are any funky metals in the pan. Will clean the filter while I'm at it. Also by solenoid. I meant more like a cam or pistons that moves hydraulically via pressure when put into park. But that doesn't seem to be the case right now. also this one has always went into low gear right after coming to a stop. You hear the slow wind and stop of it. Then on a green light it quickly in 2 to 3rd action.
As somebody who had a fordomatic rebuilt in a 57 Fairlane..spend the money and look into flat-o products adapter for a C4. I regret having my fordomatic rebuilt.
@jaracer moved the wagon today to get in place and work on it. putting in low manually works and reverse works. waiting on the manual. I might do the pan drop and band adjustment. As for the linkage adjustment I'll take a look at posts and read up on a bit more. Also waiting on the new pan and filter.
There is no filter ,just a screen, the band can be adjusted from the outside ,sooner think your problem is kickdown linkage adjustment ,unhook all carb linkage at relay on intake and kickdown rod ,put rod nail etc threw holes on relay, adjust accelerator pedal so it is about two inch off floor ,now holding carb wide open attach carb linkage holding accelerator pedal in this position ,next you pull up on kickdown rod against stop and reattach to relay on intake manifold, now take out rod or nail in relay and road test it should kickdown trans when you push the accelerator to the floor and shift points normal
If the pumps were in the back of the transmission then how does the any of the pumps get power from flywheel to run the transmission? Is there a shaft that turns with the flywheel or torque converter and drives the pump?
thanks for the linkage adjustment advice. I took at look at the linkage at the top and to me, please correct me...the linkage adjusts the shift points right? but won't help the intermediate grabbing right? The 2 fear is what's slipping. Also I didn't want to try to run it up to speed to try to get 3rd in. It doesn't make sense to me because nothing moved in the linkage unless it's inside. The band adjustment is the one thing that may help. Will report back soon.
The low/reverse band can be adjusted from the outside, but the intermediate (2nd gear) band adjustment is internal. You have to drop the pan to get to the adjuster.
The linkage adjusts both shift points and operating pressure. If not adjusted correctly you can end up with early shifts and low operating pressure which can cause clutches and bands to slip.
Well. I guess I found it. Looks like the servo that actuates the intermediate band. The body cracked. Not a pretty picture. I wonder if we're replacing that part would work this out. The manual states that replacing the servo can be done from underneath without removing the transmission. Everything else looks clean. That black nut with the stud. Is this the adjusting nut for the band? Not that it helps at this point. The bolt itself seems to be touching where I would think the 1/4" clearance should be. Maybe the band was previously adjusted tighter by the PO but it has never given me grief.
You have found your problem. If you didn't have anything in the pan that looked like clutch material, I'd replace the servo, adjust the band, and give it a try. And yes, the adjustment appears to be way off, too tight. The adjustment is made with a 1/4 in spacer between the servo and the adjusting screw.
Yep. Shame the oil was nice and clean not Burnt. But not a huge amount comes out. I missed a whole FOM for sale locally. And I think there is one at the wrecking yard. But will call Fatsco. They list the part as well.
Wow, that servo support crack is huge. Change out the servo, and adjust band properly. Should get an improvement.
Any chance someone has seen this before? Maybe the seals in the servo were getting stuck until the starter blew it apart? Or the adjustment bolt being too tight has something to do with it? Just want to know to prevent it. I have to locate a replacement before proceeding or even completely removing. located a new Sevro. Waiting and sent $$ hopefully helps the situation.
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