Technical Ford starter button does nothing when pushed

I want to run my electric fan and electric fuel pump when I turn the key, Inalsonwanted to replace the hot battery cable so I figured what better time to get it done. . So last night I was changing my starter solenoid over to a 12v it was still 6v so that I could have both ignition and starter poles. I put the new one in but now when I push my starter button I get nothing.
I can start it with the key on using my remote start trigger.
I have continuity on my ballast resistor.
All voltage in proper spots on the starter solenoid.
Pulled the ignition switch I have voltage on one pole coming in. No volts on others until key is turned on.

I switched back to the 6v same issue. Never had the issue until I tried switching it over.
It’s something super simple and I am banging on my head trying to figure it out but I think it is making me into the simple one. Haha
Does anybody have any ideas?
Rob

 

If you had a 6v. solenoid it activated by grounding the pole. 12 v. activates by positive voltage to the pole.

 

I’m confused as to what you are saying. I put the new cable on the battery side and the existing cable on the starter side until I get a chance to change it and the wire that was on the S Pole I pit back on it’s original spot

 

The dash button provides ground for the original solenoid. The new solenoid you installed needs a B+ signal to activate as it likely is grounded through the mount. To correct this, you would need the correct 12v solenoid with (+) and (-) small posts with the mounting bracket isolated. You would run a constant hot to the (+) side and connect the push button to the (-) side.

Also I will add that the "I" pole on your current 12v solenoid is not for running accessories like your fan and such, it is used to bypass the ballast resistor during engine crank so that the ignition coil receives full battery voltage to assist with getting the engine to light off.

 

So my best bet is to just go back to my 6v solenoid?

 

Or get someone knowledgeable in 12v conversions & automotive electrical systems to help you in person. Electricity does not care if you make a mistake, it will punish you in the worst way possible if it is able to. The last thing we want here is another car burned to the ground by electrical faults or leaking fuel, there have been plenty of threads on the HAMB showcasing total losses of cars from these causes.

 

I just went back to 6v still nothing on the start button

 

Stupid question, are you making it negative ground instead of positive ground?

 

it was converted to 12v before I purchased it. The PO just flipped the wires and changed it from Positive ground to negative ground. I’m just trying to go through it until winter time comes and I can yank all of the old wiring out and put a new harness it. Then it will be so much easier to understand and read. I have no interior lights but I have turn signals headlights tail light wipers break lights oil pressure, fuel , 2 thermostats, fuel pump fan and a horn, blower motor for the heater even a cigarette lighter. Just wanted the fuel pump and the fan to run off the key, now I can only start it with my remote starter trigger because whatever I do the push button won’t do anything. At this point I just wish it would start off the button and I could walk away from it for the day.

 

I went through the same thing with my 6V system when creating the wiring harness from scratch. lol! Still scratching my head…The thing that really three me off was the 3-pole solenoids I used for the starter and electric cooling fan for the rad.

 

That’s what someone told me to do was to put the dan and the pump to the solenoid so they could run

 

Or reinstall the 6volt solenoid. It will easily handle 12 volts as the amperage in the 12 volt system is half of the amperage required by the 6 volt system.
And it provides the starter button ground connection you desire.

 

While it's true that 6V solenoid can handle the 12V switching current with zero issues, the 6V solenoid coil doesn't like the 12V input to it. It will fail, sooner or later....

 

@Crazy Steve , can you suggest a 12 volt solenoid that works as the OP desires?
Such as from Cole Hersee or one of the rod parts sellers?

 

They make a 12 volt solenoid that works like the 6 volt solenoids. Look for one with only one small terminal on it like the 6 v one you have, and not one with 2 small terminals. The wiring diagram for the solenoid shows that the small terminal grounds to activate the solenoid. Like this one......
https://www.steinertractor.com/ABC069-Starter-Solenoid-Relay-Assembly?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PMax: (ROI) Smart Shopping - High Margin&utm_id=17561055353&utm_content=&utm_term=&mkwid=|pcrid||pkw||pmt||slid||pdv|c|product|ABC069|pgrid||cpgnid|17561055353|ptaid||adtext||&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=17339002759&gbraid=0AAAAAD3J3LHsOlo3mVJet0pXMAU_P-Qdv&gclid=Cj0KCQjw3OjGBhDYARIsADd-uX71WcBGYZwq5UG_ihyM44xzoR_IYGLXRC4BanEJveuiTIgpaKd87fMaAoY8EALw_wcB

 

Standard Ignition SS587 is a 12v version of the stock solenoid. Keep in mind the battery cable needs to go on a specific side of that solenoid (usually marked). If your 6v isn't working now check that cables are correct.

 

The cheapest and easiest one to find would be a winch solenoid. Most off-road places should have them, here's one for only $36 including shipping. Note this one has four big terminals and three small ones.
New Heavy Duty Winch Relay Solenoid 12v 500A 12000lb Max For ATV UTV Truck 4x4 | eBay
It's got a 500 amp rating, more than adequate. You won't use all the terminals, but it will do what you want.

But the best (and cheapest) solution is do what Mark says in post 13. A $10 relay and a bit of wire using your pushbutton to operate the relay and use the relay to supply power to the 'regular' (and common) solenoid.

If you've ever had a horn start blowing uncontrollably, it's because they're wired like the early Ford starter button, with the horn button supplying the ground. If the button or wire short to ground, you lose control. If you use a relay and power the relay coil off the ignition circuit and use the button to supply the coil ground, simply turning off the key will stop it. Otherwise, you'll have to pull a battery cable. This is why Ford changed it...

That's a 4-cylinder Ford tractor solenoid and is listed for both 6 and 12V (???). Did the '53-57 Ford tractors use positive ground? May be what he already has...

Right wiring, but another 4-cylinder bit, this time stolen off a Nissan.

As to the cooling fan and fuel pump, you'll need a couple of relays again if you want to control them with the ignition switch.

 

Apples and Oranges. Basically all coils are 6V (unless they are marked 12V). A 12V system uses a ballast resistor to cut the voltage to 6V at the coil. The Ford solenoid with 2 small terminals uses 1 to supply 12V from the start switch to the electromagnetic coil in the solenoid. That pulls a plate to contact the 2 large wires and supply voltage to the starter. The other small terminal also gets energized and supplies a full 12V to the coil (while the key is in start) for easier starting.
The single terminal solenoid should show 6V (or 12V) on the small terminal when just sitting there. When that gets grounded it energizes the solenoid.
The Ford 8N Tractor uses the same 6V solenoid. You can see the wire from the solenoid is hot and the switch grounds it to activate the solenoid.

 

I've had the original ford ground button running the ford 6v solenoid running on 12 v neg ground for many years now, no problems. I like the old original ones with the manual button on the solenoid so you can start it from under the hood. You can but them new, sorry no part number, Cole Hersey I believe.