Technical WWAD (what would Anthony do)

WWAD? I mentioned in the whatever thread having a new to me 283 short block.

It’s a bit grimy but otherwise it’s in good shape. Very little ridge, a couple of thousandths at most. I’ve taken a crude measurement at the top of the bores just a bit below the ridge, and it shows about 0.002-0.003 inch wear. Now don’t worry, I know it’s not good practice, but do you guys remember when you were younger, like 17-18 years old, and trying to get an engine running for the paltry amount of money that you made back then?

So here’s a fun blast from the past to ruminate over. And I know we have all done one of these deals. A true backyard mechanic rebuild.

What we would have done back then is ream the ridge, and disassemble the engine, carefully measuring and labeling all of the parts, and washing them thoroughly to ensure they were operating room clean. Right?

Then, a glaze breaker to get some cross hatch back into the cylinders. Beg, borrow or make your own cam bearing driver, and remove the cam bearings to get everything out of the oil passageways. That would be followed up with polishing the crankshaft, and fitting new bearings. Followed by more cleaning. Then rebuilder’s file to fit stock replacement rings, and carefully reassemble your short block, measuring and ensuring that everything fits perfectly.

Okay, so now the truth. I did an engine early on in my car centric life, a 283, $25 from the local automotive recycling facility, and ran it for 13 months with only a head gasket issue.

Cam bearings? Looked good just the way they were. Okay, so pull the oil gallery plugs and rifle cleaning brushes and spray parts cleaner, and the block was ready for the honing. Used a glaze breaker and got decent cross hatch in all of the cylinders. Cleaned up again with spray cans and white paper towels, used up 2 rolls on my mom. Oops!

The rings were 0.005 oversized, and I was actually quite careful filing them to get the right end gaps. 12-inch mill smooth file “borrowed” from work, and clamped in a vise and got the gaps pretty good, if a little bit looser than I was hoping for. Probably better to loose than tight.

Polish the crank? Take it to work, and ask one of the machinists for help. He chucked it in a lathe and showed me how to get into a good shoe shining mindset with emery cloth from rolls. As I recall he had me use a very fine grit, 400 I think. Took me quite a while to get 9 journals shiny, and relatively the same diameter main journal to main journal and rod journal to rod journal. He spent a lot of time making sure that I was using the shop’s mics properly. And then looked up the dimensions in a manual to determine what size bearings to get. 0.001 undersized worked out just fine.

So clean the crank and rods and piston assemblies. Install the rings, bearings in the block, and oil them with 50:weight oil. Same with the rods and piston assemblies. Slide in a new cam, of course it was one of those favorite cams from Chevrolet, solid lifters and all. I remember using moly assembly lube and using the whole tube on the cam and lifters. So much so that I had to get another tube for the pushrods, rockers etc. And wash in gasoline to get it off of me!

So I wanted good heads, and as luck would have it, I had a decent set of 461 heads with 1.94 intake valves. Those cost me about $50 to have them done, and I used the springs for a Z28 cam. So far I was still on budget, but of course I had to get a 4 barrel for it. I had a cast iron intake, that originally had a Carter carb on it, but I wanted a Holley! Bought a 600 cam, now here’s a big no no, a double pumper! And an adapter plate to get it all together. What a FUBAR!

Now I had read Hot Rod and knew about prelubing the engine, but I didn’t have any clue about how to do it. Go to the speed shop and ask them what to do. Fortunately they took pity on me and loaned me a distributor that had been modified for exactly that purpose. And further, they showed me how to preset the timing for quick startup.

And it ran! Pretty good too! Lasted 13 months and went with the vehicle when I sold it for something else.

So, what about everyone else? Horror stories about that first engine rebuild? And WWAD, regarding the new to me engine in the garage? Should I relive my youth and do something similar? I have to say, I do have some automotive machine shop equipment in the garage. And probably better than I used back then.

Oh well, I was on the phone with the engine shop today getting the 327 in progress finally! I’ll detail the specs in the whatever thread in the near future. Right now first steps are to make sure that the block and heads for that engine are good, and get the striker crank and rods. We’ll figure out cam, and the rest of the valve train after that. It’s being designed to run on premium pump fuel. So compression won’t be crazy high. And the rest is already on hand. More later…

 

Age 14, I had read the series about how to fix up your first car in Hot Rod...

61 Chevy Impala convertible, with the 283 and PG. Dad had bought it several years earlier for about $30, with the intent that when it quit running, us boys could take it apart to see how it worked. It was having some troubles, so I took it apart. The engine wasn't really too bad, I guess...we didn't have any way to measure anything, anyways.

Rented a tripod and chainfall, a ridge reamer and a hone. And a torque wrench. Left the crankshaft and cam bearings alone. Took the heads to a local machine shop for a valve job. Cleaned the block and all the other parts with gasoline (leaded, of course). New rings, bearings, and gaskets from JC Whitney, as dad had been on their catalog mailing list for a few years.

Got it back together, it ran pretty well.

the rest is history.

 

Dave's story reminded me of one of Jim's Lemons cars. The Edsil, I think.

Gary

 

Shade tree/garage overhaul. I’ve done a few with very good results. Having reasonable expectations and staying with in the factory tolerance specs a very decent engine can be built. Mild to moderate performance upgrades will be OK. An engine with 0.002 - 0.003 cylinder wear is maybe 25 to 30% wore out so should be good for 75k miles.
I agree the best practice is going to a machine shop and getting everything to gnats ass is the best practice but expensive and not necessary for most engines. I’d say do a shade tree rebuild on the 283 and run it.
Dan

 

That’s what I’m talking about! Guys doing it for low to no money. At the time I did that first one, I had a take home pay of $73.46 for 45 hours a week. And still living at home, mom took a little bit also. Now it wasn’t much, but I probably had about $60 to play with. And I was in fat city!

Those cheapo engine jobs were very entertaining and instructional for a newbie. If you go back in the whatever thread you will find that I blew up a couple of 327s, but they were straight out of the junkyard, only getting an oil change and tuneup.

 

Figure out how long the engine has to last. If you think it needs to go 75k miles, you're probably wildly overestimating how much the car will be driven!

I've done several engines recently with new rings, new gaskets, and not much else...with the intent that they'll last 2ok miles, because the car will not be driven that far, ever. I put 5k miles on it, and sell the car, and the new owner would be hard pressed to put another 5k on it before they die.

 

Great thread...

 

I did a similar 327 build as @Dave G in Gansevoort . I remember installing the points distributor loosely in the block, turning on my small transistor radio and setting it near the engine, turning the crank to the initial timing mark, turning on the ignition, and rotating the distributor until I heard a crackle on the radio when the points opened and tightened it down. The timing light showed timing was spot on.

 

For all of you who are still mentally 17, and of the "flathead persuasion", a word of warning. Never set the bare block on a single axle trailer with all the parts laid out around it ready for assembly. The first time you attempt to roll the block over, the trailer will tilt, and the block will crawl right up your arm with all those studs' making dimples in your skin. Oh, the rods, main caps and bearings that were laid out so carefully, they will wind up scattered in the dirt.

 

Using the radio to set the points.
That's like poetry.

I'm doing a "cheap-ass professional" rebuild on a 440 right now. 36,000 miles in a motorhome. No cylinder ridge to speak of. Hone the cylinders, bearings, rings and gaskets.

And a new timing chain and gears. I didn't see that you mentioned that. Worth spending some money on to get a good one so it doesn't stretch so much so quickly.

If it needed more, I'd do it. But it's not necessary. I am giving it a little special treatment here and there. Smoothing on the outside of the block and the inside of the heads. Not so basic, but it's mostly just labor, doesn't cost much.

I'll be sure not to use the trailer as a workbench. I do need to keep the curious deer and cats from coming in the garage and messing up stuff. Thus, my recent addition of storage units so I can put things away.

 

yep......break out the JC Whitney Master tool box....put out the portable cardboard shop floor.... pop the pan and head......cut down the ridge with a borrowed tool, hone the bores and a new set of cast iron rings....just take out some shims on the rods and mains...lap in the valves.....head gasket looks good.....lots of copper coat....side cover gasket stayed on the cover.....lots of blue goo....
most expensive part of the project? the new 6V battery ...time line...weeks and weeks and lot's of bicycle trips to Drumm Auto to ask advice and guidance on what I was attempting
can't hear the valves ticking for all the exhaust noise......
how fast and far are you going to drive this banger anyway.....it will barely stop

 

That’s a new one on me, learn something everyday.
Dan

 

Did the same to a SBF ford in HS. Around 87
Fresh hone, had to turn the crank though.
Cleaned the block with a torch
That engine is still cruising today.
It’s ran every kind of oil and weight on the plannet.
We honed the block and polished the crank on the 500 that’s in my bus.
Everything was in spec. Milled the head a tad.
Spent less than a grand on the engine including a performance cam.
. That’s cheap for a caddy.
Runs great

 

First engine of my own, was a 327 for my 56 Handyman. $50 engine from friend at work, cleaned the outside then tore it down. Took the ridge off with my brand new ridge reamer from JC Penney catalogue, put a cross hatch on the bores with a 3 stone hone. Polished the crank with emery cloth and boot lace. Took the sharp edge of the oil holes in the crank off by hand with a large drill bit. Chased all the threaded holes. Installed a L79 cam and lifters I bought from the muscle car guy down at the end of our street. Paid the machine shop to do valve job on the double hump heads that were on the 327. Intake and carb were new. Broke the rings in as I read about and used the engine for 30 thousand miles, then my buddy bought the car.
Fun, thanks for triggering the memories!

 

When I was in the Army I had a '63 Chevy 4x4 Carryall with a 230 six. I came home on a 3 day pass and the engine started puffing exhaust out the dip stick. Drove it to the parts store I dealt with and the machinist pulled plug wires and determined I had a hole in #3 piston. I asked him if he thought it would make it 500 miles back to the depot I was stationed at since as a lower rank enlisted guy I was always broke. And I was planning on replacing the six with a small block in the future so I didn't want to spend a lot of money on the six. The machinist said it would be a piece of cake to pull the head, pan, and #3 piston since it was a 4x4 and noting was in the way of removing the pan. I did just that and returned with #3 piston complete with the rod but not the rod cap. I was told to go get the cap and when I returned he pulled a piston with rod and bearing out of a core exchange motor waiting to be returned to a rebuilder. The bore matched as did the rod bearing. I installed the used piston and rod assembly and made it back to post with no issues for the cost of a couple of gaskets. Don't think I even changed the oil but not positive. In fact it ran so well I made one more 1,000 mile 3 day pass trip with the six before the small block transplant.

 

Dave, focus! This is a side project to your main build!
That said, if this engine ends up in Whatever, it will last the rest of your driving and be a blast!
In addition to all the cleaning and careful measuring, I'd suggest also deburring the inside, casting seams and all sharp edges. We aren't 17 with the ability to heal that we once had. No need to slice yourself up test fitting. Plus it makes you feel like you put in the effort to do it as well as you can.
You have an ultrasonic cleaner, so you can get all the hardware squeaky clean, too.
Brake hone for the lifters?

 

I have a piston knurling tool I bought with just this kind of build in mind............so far I haven't used it yet, but a lot of these older engine/cheap rebuilds used to use knurled pistons to offset the light honing/wear when reusing the original pistons.



https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2017/09/lost-art-knurling-pistons-takes-skill-guts/

.

 

Who has knurled pistons with a couple of files? Yep, it works

 

While knurling is time-proven, I wonder if there is a coating that could be applied DIY that is a few thou thick and slick? There are various pro coatings, but if the aim is to backyard it, what's out there?

 

I encounter engines that burn oil because the rings are worn out...but they don't knock, because there's still OK clearance at the skirt, even with .005-.010" taper (wear at the top of the bore). As long as you only break the glaze, and don't try to remove taper when you hone it, the piston skirts should still fit OK, and not need to be knurled.

Of course the taper makes the new rings wear out faster, but they'll still usually go 20k-50k miles.

 

Tightwads!

 

Yeah... cheap-asses.

Actually, we just know what we can get away with and where. With other things, you squeeze the piggy bank. Maybe spend $2,000 on an intake manifold.

 

I just knew it! I’m glad so many of us have been there, done that! R.E. new timing chain. Of course, unless you have a slightly used one from another engine. I tended to (and still do) collect stuff if it looks like it is still usable. And I had some of those truck Chevy roller chains, well, because. The sprockets looked fine, and the chain probably only had slightly more flex in the center than a new one. So, yes I’ve used used timing chains before. Now I have left over 3 gear gear drives, and if you have racing friends, you can probably get one for the same price as a new roller chain set.

Remember, I’m half Scot, and that side is thrifty…okay go ahead and call me cheap!

 

Yep a bunch of cheap skates here. I know I guy who bracket raced an early C10 with a BBC 396, mostly built from junk. Ran good and held together. I think the only real money was on the head job. Even the cam and components were used.
Dan

 

Hone and go is traditional

Crap, Ive welded cam lobes. Watched the boss build up spun bearing journals with a welder.
Have that one journal cut and send it.

we did an in frame on my friends work car. Sandpaper the bores, new rings and roll in the mains. Zoom zoom

had af100 drop a rod. Weld up the pan. Polish the bottom of the bore with a die grinder, used rod, new piston and rings(one piston). Drove the every loving crap out of it.

Cousin had a Chevy 2 wagon and 283. Killed the cam. Used cam and lifters fixed that one. Still in it today after 40 years.
This ain’t rocket surgery

 

As a Forbes, I can relate

 

That Forbes?

 

I’ve done an in frame once, didn’t need new mains just hone, rings, and rod bearings and head exchange at local shop ran for 50000 + miles until I pulled and tore down, still looked decent.
Dan

 

I did a ring job "in frame" for the HAMB's entertainment a few years ago...

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/doing-a-ring-job-the-old-way.1150563/

 

Did a hurry up quick job on "dusted" industrial 318 once. Boss bought std rings and we found the engine was already .030 over on tear down and nobody had the right rings. He said use the std rings . Cut the ridge, glaze busted the cyls, hand lapped the valves, polished the crank with fine emery strips, etc. Engine ran good, delivered the machine, was still running good several years later when they traded it in. Rest of machine was worn out by then so we donated it to the local boy scout troop for them to get scrap money.

Boss told of having to take lots of short cuts when he was keeping the supply trucks hauling during the Korean war.