History Roll Bars before 1952

I remember reading the drivers thought being thrown clear of the car when it rolled was the best way to survive. Guess that thought process was before them wearing seat belts.

 

i cut the anchors out of my '78 F-150 4x4 so my toolbox would fit behind the seat.

 

I started a company in the early 60's called Safe-Speed Roll bars with Trigg Stewart who owned Autopower in San Diego. Sports cars were our main market. We used a Pines mandrel bender to form the hoops and 1/4" plate and 7/16" grade 8 bolts. Roll bars were 1-3/4" OD mild steel. Research was done in junk yards throughout southern California by looking at wrecked MG's, Triumph's, Sprites, Austin-Healy's, etc. Biggest problem was attachment points as a lot of those cars didn't have frames. We had some very satisfied customers that had survived a roll over thanks to our roll bars. Product liability insurance premiums put us out of business.

 

yeah you still see that from time to time in old used up dirt cars around the west side with Sunset and St Helens speedways. I think even the one older Roadkill episode when they got a 70 Challenger dirt car that ran at Banks had a threaded ductile iron pipe roll cage. So it was still happening into the 70s/early 80s with that same thinking.

 

The rules for the hobby class at our local track had a roll cage requirement. The rule stated that a 4 point roll cage was required, and that at least 3 driver side door bars were required. the roll cage could not go forward of the firewall, and could not extend to the rear beyond the main hoop. Surprisingly, most roll cages were pretty well constructed. Most new comers checked out the other cars in the class before they came to race.

There were no specs on the size of the bars, what material was required to be used, how the bars were supposed to be attached to each other, or how they were supposed to be installed into the car! We ran on a long 1/2 mile track (measured around the inside of the track) and reached straight speeds approaching 90 mph, on 78 series street tires, with stock factory wheels, and factory stock suspension. My car was running mid 28 second laps, with a factory stock, 100K miles, 383 ci big block Mopar, 3rd gear in the 4 speed, 3.23 rear gears, turning 6,000 rpm at the end of the straights.
It is a wonder how we never had any serious injuries in those many crashes that class had.

 

interesting. i am assuming this was recent past (meaning after 1960).

i think for the period cars i am & going to model, the rules wouldn't require such elaborate iron-mongering. in those days (pre-1952) i get the impression cars and drivers may have been expendable.

but please don't think we're not glad you are here to tell your experiences!

thanks,

s.e.

 

PVC roll bar?



from here:

1937 Ford Modified Race Car21787 for Sale in TANEYTOWN, MD | RacingJunk

 

Need to find a copy of “cool cars, square roll bars”

 

I got my copy new from here a few years ago:
https://www.coastal181.com/nlm-working-April-2005/hot_rods-drags.htm#SQUARE

 

'smokes. there's a whole book about these things!

 

Drivers back then planned on dying.

 

Pretty fearless when they've seen war.

 

I used to think that the understanding of The Laws of Physics was less back then, but people have convinced me that they are still not a thing that people understand.

They are not called The Friendly Suggestions of Physics.

 

guilty . . . .

 

Hello,

Remember, the pipe might be strong enough at first, but in making those threaded ends, the metal gets cut into and the grooves weaken the pipe. But, at the time, the current steel composition of the tubes aren’t what was available back then. So, it was total experimentation. The thread plumber's pipes of all sizes were easy to assemble and create shaped roll bars. What was available were threaded pipes and the connections to make roll bars fit. Not modern safety, but functional, up to a point. And a thin one at that.

Jump up 20 years and the technology for roll bar construction was good enough to actually save lives in a roll over. As long as the helmeted head was the allowed distance from the bars. In a roll over, the helmeted head swings wildly left and right, as well as forward/backward. So, the distance must be far away as to not hit anything in that movement.

Prior to the late 50s and 60s chassis construction, it looked as if it was pure backyard builds and heads were near to or above the bar, when the seat was adjusted. YRMV
But, eventually, the modern steel tubing was strong enough in a good design to withstand most accidents. Some were questionable, but at least they were welded tubing and not threaded ends.

Note:

When I started my skateboard business and custom scooter business, I looked at what was available for construction purposes. The “T” handle was the main concern.
I originally made one out of shelving brackets at a 90 degree angle. But within weeks of hard scooting around the yard, our young son demolished the brackets and bent the “T” bar. So, back to the drawing boards. (pun intended) the next version was threaded plumber’s pipes and fittings.

Two 6 inch threaded pipes for the handlebar grips, threaded into a “T” center section.

The whole top “T” unit is then threaded into the threaded circular base, that is now bolted into the flat board in the front wheel truck bolt holes. It is now secured to the board and the custom bicycle hand grips can be installed after several coats of paint. The threads are covered with the rubber/foam handgrips and do not show. The “t” center piece is covered with a bicycle pad that snaps over the metal.
Everything fit perfectly and created a sturdy handlebar for all.
The complete front grip is now strong enough for our son to ramble all over our yard, the sidewalks out in front and in our neighborhood parks with his friends.

The “T” attachment was attached to the front two bolts of the trucks to prevent forward falls as one leans. But, overall, the “T” bar set up was sturdy and withstood falls and rough handling.

For safety, after the original scooter was made, my son stepped on the rear and fell back on his butt. So, I added a spinning skateboard wheel with a bearing to spin, yet act as a skid plate, preventing the fall backwards.

The finished design...

Jnaki

But, after weeks of daily use as a rental scooter at our local harbor, some started showing cracks in the threaded base area. The stress of turning corners, the constant cracks between the concrete pads, leaning forward to move and pulling back to stop by little 60 lbs. kids was causing stress in the pipe threads. Some actually fell apart at the threads.

THE LOCAL WELDING/MACHINE SHOP SAID THE DESIGN IS GOOD, BUT THE WEAKNESS IN THE THREADS WAS THE KEY POINT. He said he could use 4130 chromoly steel tubing at a fraction of a higher cost, but double the strength due to the welded joints and not threaded. So, a 20 set of “t” bars with flat baseboards were made and welded together.

Now, the completed skateboard scooter was ready for sale to all skateboard shops.

From the pipe thread start to the sturdy welded metal plate and Chromemoly tubing .

One of three still left in the attic. Used on long Camp Pendleton trail to the surf spots. AND... it gets used to move heavy things from one point to another with ease of a rolling cart platform. YRMV

 

They didn't plan on dying, then just as now they knew the risks and accepted them.

We had a family friend killed in the 1990 ARCA 200 at Daytona I have also attended races where people have been killed, which makes me very well aware what can happen every time I sign in at the pit shack. I know the risks and accept that does not mean I expect for myself, any other crew member or competitor to be hurt or killed.

It's no different than as a welder /fabricator I know a can be cut or burned but I don't expect to be every time I clock in at work.

 

These pic from Local track that open
1951 here on East , supposedly first drag strip East Coast Manassas Va .
The house @ time was Owned by my family member, later after fence was added , Then taken down House sold to track . Stood until closing in 2014 .
I remember those Blocks 3 sets being @ finish line up into Late 80's. Typical
S-Pro car mid 5 @ 130 plus, in 1/8 .
It was a Hell of hit even @ 60 mph .
The Shitty Diddy you can see like 4 inch
Pipe roll bar

 

yup; a simpler time, indeed.

i wonder how much Diddy howled with the ends of that bar wide open?

 

I'm not endorsing threaded pipe rollbars, but I've seen safety railings also made from 2" threaded pipe that got hit by cars and bent over at extreme angles and the threads didn't snap off at the fittings. That tells me that it's quite likely those threaded joints are stronger than we might think they are.

 

Same thing.

 

I grew up in a racing family and raced into my 40's, Sadly I saw some men parish, I never met a man that planned on dying in a race car. When you start and continue you realize yes this is dangerous, but I and everyone figures that will not happen to me, I came back after 2 serious sheet time events, raced another 5 years and retired on my terms, I loved it and miss it to this day, Memories Priceless ! IMO a racer is no different than a sky diver or any of the hobbies, passions men pursue and enjoy, Adrenalin rush is a beautiful thing, some people don't want or need and never enjoy it. For me If I ever thought racing was going to kill me I would have Never sat in a race car. We all have our passions. Now 77, appreciate what a great life I've had, Thankful and Grateful.

 

Still the same thing.

Of course everyone believed that it would not happen to them. Denial does alter reality.

When the outcome of a crash likely a fatality, and you still take the risk, you are planning to die if you crash.