Hi I am having issues with my starter and or flywheel. The motor is a 59 235. It is in a 1939 master 85 sedan. I am using the original bell housing and clutch set up from the 39 with a T5 out of an S10. Just got it all in and running. It is using 12 volt power now. The flywheel and starter are the 139 tooth 216 originals. Starter was freshly rebuilt. I flipped the ring gear to have fresh teeth while things were apart. The side facing the starter doesn’t seem to be chamfered. Foot starter original. Every few times I engage the starter it doesn’t engage the flywheel fully so I get the great grinding sound. Had to do a few starts while I did break in on the motor. So hit the bad grinding several times. I pulled the starter and several sections if the flywheel are somewhat damaged, starter looks good. I am thinking the lack of chamfer on the teeth is my likely problem but not sure. I am hoping to not yank it all out again. Engine runs nice. I know running the 6 volt starter on 12 volt power is ok on the starter but they spin faster. But it seems to me that my problem is tooth engagement. A few questions… The 216 bell housing only fits the 216 flywheel size. Is that correct? I may need to replace the ring gear. Does anyone know if a 12v flywheel fits? I would swap to a 12 volt starter to match. Next question, are all 139 tooth flywheels the same size? I see that chevs of the 40s and Jim Carter truck parts both sell new ring gears. Final question, optimal is to not tear the motor and trans back apart…any thoughts on how to fix the grinding? Thanks Jeff
The chamfer on the ring gear teeth is there for a reason........looks like a pull down is in order & a new ring gear installed the correct way.
I have no experience with your engine or starter housing but I have managed to work on the ring gear of my engine through the starter hole. Maybe you could chamfer one tooth at a time with a small Dremel grinder and turn the flywheel with a lever to work on the next tooth. If this is doable it would be done in a couple hours and would save a lot of work.
You need to use the flywheel for the 12 volt starter. 6 and 12 volt use different tooth count flywheels.
Try using the 6 volt starter. It will work on 12. If you don't get carried away and crank it for long periods.
The 6v setup has larger teeth on the flywheel, that have a chamfer on them. The 12v setup has smaller teeth with no chamfer on the teeth, but the starter drive gear has chamfered teeth. How bad was the chamfered side of the ring gear? If it's not too bad you could just flip it back over and see how it does. Although it's a lot of work to do that! as you are dreading. Unfortunately, it's probably what you'll need to do, if the "chamfer in place" advice above doesn't work out for you.
Thanks. You all have validated my fears lol. I could try pulling the inspection cover and make a chamfer between each as noted. If that doesn’t work then tear down. I drilled out the crank snout and put a dampener bolt in while the motor was on the stands turning it by hand isn’t an issue. Anyone have a good photo of the chamfer? Thanks!
yeah, just pull the cover off the bottom of the bellhousing and look at the other side of the ring gear. Make sure you put the chamfer on the correct side of the tooth, opposite corner from the existing one.
I thought I would do a quick update. I pulled the inspection cover off and the original side of the teeth that were chewed up are well...definitely chewed up, so any view of a chamfer is not easy to detect. I may need to just buy a replacement to see if I might be able to grind the existing one to match. Pictures online (ehay) aren't clear enough to tell. Here are two shots of the original chewed up side that I flipped to the back. Near as I can tell, the chamfer is on the right in each pic (taken from the bottom). I am guessing the chamfer is just a bit of a different angle, but I can't tell...which is why I am thinking of just buying a new one to look at. Then if I can't get the chamfer right, I can disassemble and replace. I would prefer to not pull the transmission, but may just have to.
if the teeth are just rounded a bit, and not missing chunks, then it probably would have worked just fine if you left it alone, instead of flipping it. Looks like the chamfer is a uniform bevel all around the teeth. What does the "new" side look like? and what does the starter drive gear look like? very good clear pictures, btw, good job!
I am pretty sure the flywheels will interchange [as far as bolting up and fitting the bell housing . the flywheels are the same diameter but use a different tooth count . I have done it but don't remember what years motor/tranny I did it with.
Can you pull the starter off and power it on the bench then correlate the distance the pinion moves to see whether it is actually fully engaging in the flywheel teeth?
You can swap ring gears On the 216 flywheel if you get the right ring gear. There is a wrong ring gear that has an Id that is .262 larger than the one that works on the 216 flywheel.
Hi Squirrel, I was thinking it looked like a bevel...I guess the idea is that it would be a funnel of sorts to allow the starter teeth to more easily engage. With a stomp starter, the engagement isn't quite as direct as an electrical solenoid. When I flipped it, I was thinking, while it is out, why not, but I agree that that was a mistake!! Live and learn for sure. Here is a picture of the side that is at the front of the flywheel now.
Hi Mr48chev, so are you saying there is a 168 tooth to replace the 139 tooth or a replacement 139 tooth? I have an extra 12V starter so if I pull the flywheel, that could be an option. But, I have been curious about that. I also have a 168 tooth flywheel (actually two) one is for a 10" clutch and the other is an 11". If I have to pull things apart, I can measure to see if the 10" clutch 168 tooth is the same as my 216 flywheel. It would be cool if I were able to just create chamfer/bevel per Squirrel's comments and save the headache of pulling the trans. I need to start on swapping out the torque tube for the open diff, so set backs aren't my friend
Alright! I am going to bring this to closure. I spent about an hour creating a chamfer. Not pretty by any means. I used a Dewalt 20v 3" cut off wheel I have. A regular grinder was going to be very cumbersome. I just used the side and edge of eh cut off wheel as a grinder. Here is a picture of one section. I mentioned above that I had drilled out and tapped the crankshaft snout for a bolt, and it paid off today. Afterwards, I tried and no grinding, then it did grind. Went back through and looked for the place or places it might still need some work and hit those again. So far so good today...we will see as I continued to work on putting this car back together, but I think Squirrel's idea of mirroring the chamfer worked. Certainly nothing to lose by trying before pulling it all apart. Thanks again for everyone's thoughts and ideas on this. Lesson learned by me is just pay better attention. I am very detailed, but I had read that it worked for some, so assumed it would. Too hit and miss so next time, I will just go handle more appropriately. I hope this helps someone sometime. Jeff Alright! I am going to bring this to closure. I spent about an hour creating a chamfer. Not pretty by any means. I used a Dewalt 20v 3" cut off wheel I have. A regular grinder was going to be very cumbersome. I just used the side and edge of eh cut off wheel as a grinder. Here is a picture of one section. I mentioned above that I had drilled out and tapped the crankshaft snout for a bolt, and it paid off today. Afterwards, I tried and no grinding, then it did grind. Went back through and looked for the place or places it might still need some work and hit those again. So far so good today...we will see as I continued to work on putting this car back together, but I think Squirrel's idea of mirroring the chamfer worked. Certainly nothing to lose by trying before pulling it all apart. Thanks again for everyone's thoughts and ideas on this. Lesson learned by me is just pay better attention. I am very detailed, but I had read that it worked for some, so assumed it would. Too hit and miss so next time, I will just go handle more appropriately. I hope this helps someone sometime. Jeff
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